Last stand of Air Realistic Battles

[themadseventeen]

ARB’s last stand

Preface

Once again this game finds itself in a bad spot like it was not so long ago. Multiple major issues plague this game, technical or otherwise. From low RP/SL gains, questionable BR placements, overall BR compression, degradation of the Battle Pass, insane copy paste filled updates that also break the game while not bringing anything new, rank 3 copy paste event vehicles requiring 350K mission score to get, geopolitically questionable decisions (Singapore going to China being the most recent) to numerous bugs that have not been fixed for years. One could go on and list a bunch more. We all see it. The game is not in a healthy state.

I am however not going to focus on most of these issues in this thread. As the title states this thread is about the all but abandoned (like all gamemodes to be fair) Air Realistic Battles Gamemode.

The displeasure and disappointment other issues mentioned above have brought upon the game are certinally deserved as they are real things people are upset about. However they are only amplified because the game is missing one of its main components. That of course being gameplay and gamemodes. What we have in War Thunder would barely pass as a proof of concept for a beta. Fix your gamemodes and you’ll see your situation improve.

Don’t believe me? Take a look at Counter Strike. Sure you have people complaining about anti cheat, performance or blatant cash grabs Valve has been pulling recently but you don’t see anyone complaining about defusal, Counterstike’s premier gamemode. Add to the fact that defusal is 25 years old and has barely changed in that time. Having incredible gameplay has bought CS a lot of good will. Even with other issues in that game people are playing it.

We all see how out of touch you are with the community. On the ARB topic it’s clear to see why as most of your officials don’t even play the gamemode, or the game in general. It’s time to listen to someone who does. Your community who still has faith that this game can be salvaged and are tirelessly posting on your forums about the ways to improve your game, most of which you ignore. This ignorance has brought you to this point.

What is the point of modeling all these vehicles, systems and complex interactions if the main environment you get to use them in is basically one spawn deathmatch. This is definitely not what you show in your trailers or what people expect from a “realistic” game. You timed the release of the F-14 to coincide with the new Top Gun movie. Do you think that people you brought in with that move think gameplay of ARB is as interesting as the movie? I would wager that they don’t.

So, let us today, in unison, push for change on at least one core system of this game: Air Realistic Battles.

Demands

There are 3 things we need for ARB to work.

• BR decompression
• Good missions
• Good maps

BR decompression

Thankfully for you this is the least technically challenging part. You possess so much data that you can linearly interpolate BRs so that you have more of them. And you also have us, the players, to do any fine tuning with manual balancing. You also have some Community Creators that the community trusts that are very invested and skilled in ARB. You could have them as advisors. Of course whose advice you would actually take into consideration.

You also absolutely need to stop relying on players stats so much. You obviously see it as fair but your vision is flawed. This is because you forgot to include a lot of biases in your statistics like players skill. Even with all of those pure stats cannot be used to balance things.

Now don’t take my word for it. We are going to poll the community and see what they think.

Is decompression needed?

• Yes
• No

What should be top BR

• 14.3
• 15.0
• 16.0
• 17.0
• 18.0
• 19.0
• 20.0

Would you like some CCs as advisors

• Yes (include which ones in replies)
• No

Missions / Gameode

This is the real issue with ARB. What we have right now is incredibly linear and repetitive and incredibly restrictive in terms of playstyle and planes one can effectively use.

Let me roughly outline the issues

• Win condition effectively boils down to destroying all enemy players
• Bombing and destroying ground targets barely contributes towards the win condition
• Dedicated bombers are all but ineffective in destroying player controlled planes, which is de facto the objective
• All “objectives” are on a straight line between the spawns on most missions

I am not going to tell you how to exactly fix the gamemode in this thread as there have been other posts made specifically for this. I am going to link some of them. What I want to do with this thread is to show you that people are sick and tired and that the gamemode needs to be fixed. At this point most changes you can make to it are going to be positive.

Last year with I was genuinely exited for ARB as it seemed were going to work on it.

• You introduced advanced ARH missiles and lowered multipathing height shaking up the meta and making it more “realistic” if I can say that.
• You added the option for smaller teams
• You added more types of ground units (first to Golah Heights map)

It seemed like you were going to do something about ARB and I liked the direction it was heading in. “Finally, they are fixing ARB” I thought to myself. However in hindsight we see that is not true. ARB hasn’t received much attention after that which deeply disappoints me.

Now I am going to throw in a few polls to see what people think of the gamemode as well as link some threads with proposed solutions to this whole mess.

How happy are you with ARB’s missions / gameplay

• Very unhappy
• Unhappy
• Neutral
• Happy
• Very happy

Do you think matches are dynamic enough

• Yes
• No

Do you think bombers/strike/interdictors are useful in ARB (in terms of winning, not grinding)

• Yes, very useful
• Yes
• Neutral
• Not really
• Not useful at all

Would you like to see a more varied objectives and win conditions that include bombers/strike/interdictors

• Yes
• No

Would you like to see a mode where bombers/strike/interdictors are necessary to win

• Yes
• No

Are you happy with the win condition being destruction of enemy player vehicles

• Yes
• No

Would you like to have a respawn system in ARB

• Yes
• No

Would you like for matches to last longer and have more complex objectives

• Yes
• No

Some proposed reworks and ideas, some of which have been “passed to devs”

Air Realistic, Enduring Confrontation

The current version of Air Realistic is overplayed, dull, and quite frankly boring. The gameplay loop is exactly the same across almost every battle rating, rank, and aircraft, with little to no variation. However, in my opinion, there is a simple solution: Air RB EC. While Enduring Confrontation exists in the standard matchmaker it is quite poorly executed and doesn’t allow for almost anything that makes EC so unique. Matches are limited to 25 minutes and basically just serve as larger maps fo…

Air Battles | New Types Of Bases

So at the moment the only way to get rewards for bombing is to destroy convoys, SPAA, Artillery, Pill boxes and what’s mostly targeted, bases. But what if there were more then just one type of large bases to bomb. Traditional Base Target [20240201162307_1] Bridge Targets So what if one of the goals in ARB was instead of destroying a base was to instead stop a enemy convoy from being able to advance onto a target. This would have the same rewards as bombing a base. [Sands-of-Tunisia-Conq…

Air RB and its possible rework

Air RB rework Presented by @Macekeeks and @themadseventeen Before you start reading, take a few minutes to answer some polls regarding the latest update. As it currently stands, air RB isn’t suited for top tier gameplay. We have observed a few issues with it, for which we’ll offer some potential solutions. ARB can’t be fixed with a few tweaks, such as decreasing player numbers. It needs a substantial overhaul. Strike aircraft and fighters carrying A2G loadouts Right now, strike planes …

Maps

I personally think we have enough good maps in the game for most tiers that could work much better if the gamemode improves. One thing I will say is for high tiers specifically I would like to see more maps with varied terrain. More maps should be added in the future but what we have right now can be used as a starting point.

Closing words

I was losing hope in the game for some time now when I saw that they are not going to do anything with ARB. This is my last attempt to do something for this game. I am afraid that if this doesn’t work I am done. I think a lot of people find themselves in a similar situation.

To Gaijin,

I believe that you think we are here to ruin you. We are not. We are here because we believe this can be salvaged. Don’t let your game die and the only gamemode there was in it be a stupid beta quality deathmatch. Don’t let your game die as a digital vehicle museum. This is your last chance. Do right by us.


To players,

I urge you to make threads of your own about issues you find most pressing. Even if we disagree on what are the most important issues we need to remember that in the end we all want the same thing: for the game to be better. So go on, voice your concerns. I have a feeling Gaijin might be listening.

If you care about ARB please let Gaijin know in the replies of this or those linked threads. If you find any related thread please link them here.

[themadseventeen]

As for CCs advising in balancing I would like to see Defyn in there.

[Cloudzy26160]

@themadseventeen

Would you like some CCs as advisors

The LAST thing Warthunder needs is game design by the people that bought us great hits like “lets abuse airspawn to dogfight in this bomber/ attacker (where did our airspawns go?)”, “drive your IS-2 backwards (Why do I always run out of FPE? and stop shooting my turret cheeks)” and “USA is OP cuz their CAS can carry the game! (Why dose USA keep losing because they have no tanks on the ground contesting the points?)”

[themadseventeen]

Fair enough but that’s why I said some. Ideally the community would decide which ones.

[Creastroy]

CCs always have better understanding on the game than dev yet they would have their own intensions; and different skill requirements on vehicles of the same strength level is a thing…

But def better than what we are having now.

[Cloudzy26160]

Sure, but blacklist everyone that made a “I haven’t seen a cheater in my X-hours of gameplay” video after that Chinese guy gave Gaijin the source codes of a bunch of cheats. And Obviously all the ones that accept “gift” vehicles and free GE are out because they completely skip the grind and only play spaded vehicles. So they have zero clue about suffering the stock grind.

@Creastroy

they would have their own intensions; and different skill requirements on vehicles of the same strength level is a thing…

Very good points.

@Creastroy

But def better than what we are having now.

I would not bet the farm on it, I have seen a CC get hired as a dev before… It was not pretty.

[RunaDacino]

What about Warthunder implementing an OSRS style Polling system?

Polling Charter

And do it through an in-game interface rather than forums so nobody misses its existence.

[Cloudzy26160]

I wouldn’t mind that, but you would need an activity requirement to stop bots etc. say 100 games in the last month prior to the poll being announced or something?

[themadseventeen]

I have suggested polls be in hangars some time ago when they did APHE polls so that everyone would see them but it was ignored then

[Dead_Sky]

Well said. Push for change before it totally devours this game. Which it will, we’re looking at fifth generation aircraft next year being employed in 16v16 conditions in such small maps. The situation is already gruesome, it would be horrific to witness that.

We NEED a total rework of air rb.

[NoirRose]

shits just boring, and when you have all these plane sub types (interceptor, bomber, frontline bomber, ect ect) they all mean jack shit when all you need is a fighter to do everything, why use a dedicated bomber when its entire role is pointless and can be done with a fighter, why use a interceptor when everyone plays like it and it does no better at its job than others

and the brs NEED to be fixed, why is the german f104g at the same br as the german f4f? they are absolutely not on the same level, and thats just those 2, not mentioning the other things at the same br that are 20x better

[Noob7n]

@Cloudzy26160

accept “gift” vehicles and free GE are out because they completely skip the grind and only play spaded vehicles.

Well the problem is that people like for example Defyn, General Lee etc need to do that so they can be some of the first to review those new planes

[Cloudzy26160]

Which is fine to make youtube slop. It doesn’t qualify them to be game designers. It certainly doesn’t qualify them to have an input on the grind and progression of the game. Even if Defyn didn’t get FREE SPADED planes to review, do you think his RP/SL gain per game and therefore his progression is anythig close to the average player?

[NeonBlazar]

@themadseventeen

As for CCs advising in balancing I would like to see Defyn in there.

Absolutely not. And having personally spoken with Defyn he very much is not capable of understanding what is good for the game.

[Gros_Nul]

Napalmratte for naval for sure, spookston for ground (but not alone), and the man who murders lobys (don’t remember how to spell his name) for air arcade.

[Noob7n]

I am pretty sure themad meant advisors in terms of BR values and balancing, not in terms of progression

[Cloudzy26160]

And my point still stands, how would someone who only plays spaded planes have any clue about balance when you start stock? Do you think Defyn has any clue how bad it is fighting Rafs in a JF-17 without CHAFF?

[NeonBlazar]

The last thing we need is Gaijin cherry picking what CC’s agree with their own decisions and taking only those on as advisors.

Community consensus for game changes is the only sensible way to go.

[themadseventeen]

I was thinking these CCs qould be elected by the community

[Cloudzy26160]

Also how do you think he would do fixing attacker/ bomber gameplay? He plays them as fighters… you think he could solve the issues with them being pointless? or would he just down tier them all until they can compete as dogfighters?