Is the suggestions section really useful?

Game Discussion General Discussion
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  • Replicated – If you found a suggestion that a new suggestion replicates, then you should TELL that person where the original thread was (instead we get utter silence, even the record of having submitted it is expunged after awhile). There’s no reason not to do this, if you already did the work of finding the thing it replicated anyway. Other than just suppressing feedback for the sake of it.

  • Plagiarized – What does this even mean? Why would anyone plagiariaze a War Thunder suggestion?

  • Have little to no effort I have submitted several things that had a great deal of effort put into them. Zero response, silence, expunged. Suppressed.

I honestly just don’t believe you. It doesn’t match personal experience.

If it was actually diligently moderated, and people were INFORMED of duplicates so that they could actually go and vote on them and bump the discussions, as well as know that you weren’t just blowing them off, it would make vastly more sense. And be a lot more effective, since more votes and bumps by all the people directed to their duplicate’s original, would show you those topics were super important.

Instead, by just waving your hands and saying “It was maybe a duplicate. Or whatever. I’m not going to say where, though” it allows you to dismiss things that were not actually duplicates, and WERE high effort, but that you just don’t LIKE.

Whether you’re doing that or not, the fact that you easily could be builds zero trust with the community. I think you should have accountability and only be able to close a suggestion with a reason. If it’s a duplicate, it should require a link to the thing it duplicates. We would have trust, because you couldn’t just brush things under the rug. And we would have a way to show high activity on important suggestions.

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Replicated: It is your obligation to ensure that your post was not duplicated in the first place. Since there are so many posts rejected every day, the suggestion moderators have no obligation to send a message and notify each player individually. This is not a customer care department. If someone posts about a topic without even looking into the current “approved posting” to see whether this topic already exists and expects the suggestion moderators to come knocking on your door to inform you why the post was rejected, we do not do that. However, if a player messages us directly about why his or her post was rejected, we can look into it for you and notify you of the reasons.

Plagiarized: A simple Google search will inform you what this word means. Tons of suggestions are paragraphs of information “copy and pasted” from the internet without paragraphing or putting in your own words. This is considered plagiarism. Information is clearly stated in Rules, Guidelines & Tips For Creating Suggestions (Check Before Creating A New Suggestion!). The fact that you are asking me about plagiarism indicates that you have most likely never read the rules carefully in the first place.

Have little to no effort: Unfortunately, when I looked at your profile, I only saw two rejected suggestions in the history. One is a three-sentence complaint about “why bushes can be shot off and require a refund”, while the other is a three-sentence request about “ability to switch current event reward for past event reward” (which has been discussed multiple times in previous postings and is told it is not possible). I am not sure if your understanding of “a great deal of effort” translates to three sentences, but if it does, you should probably work harder than this. Here is a quality suggestion: Instrument Landing System on Runways/Airfields.

It is alright if you do not believe me. But I will simply point out that the personal experiences you have shared here do not match the record.

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It’s not a matter of “obligation”, because you (the moderators) can’t even KNOW if it’s duplicated, unless you already are aware of a suggestion it duplicates. So it’s no extra work to just link it. And get way more community trust, and a way more effective suggestion system.

However, if a player messages us directly about why his or her post was rejected

You never send anything even saying it WAS rejected, so how are they supposed to do that? Or at least I’ve never gotten one. I had a pending section in the forum, which had entries, then it was just blank at some point without notification or explanation. I honestly to this day didn’t even know if they were “rejected” or lost or … ? Zero communication.

Nor anywhere where I would have known that it was even an option to ask for more information until now, for something that for all I knew was still pending.

The fact that you are asking me about plagiarism indicates that you have most likely never read the rules carefully in the first place.

The question was WHY anyone would plagiarize. If they necessarily already knew it was suggested to have plagiarized it, why would they suggest it? Just doesn’t seem like a very sensical common thing to do. Maybe there’s some good reason though.

“why bushes can be shot off and require a refund”

Yes, what further information could I possibly have provided here? It’s a pretty simple concept that you offer a product that does X, collect money for it, make it no longer do X, and have thus scammed the customer. So… refund. I’m not even sure how I got to 3 sentences, it kind of only needs 1-2.

Do you want people to just spam you with filler to reach X minimum sentences for no reason?

the other is a three-sentence request about “ability to switch current event reward for past event reward” (which has been discussed multiple times in previous postings and is told it is not possible)

  1. You seemed to perfectly well understand what I meant if you immediately know of other discussions about the same thing. So again, why did it need more sentences? Do you just want your time wasted an arbitrary amount?

  2. Where was it discussed and rejected? I’d love to know the reason why, and because I didn’t even know it was rejected for duplicate, let alone where, any good reasoning is lost on the customer/player.

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First and foremost, I would want to remind you that you should refrain from using caps on me.

It takes a lot of extra work to message everyone privately, and it is not our job to do so. As previously stated, this is not a customer service department. Simply reading through the list of previously approved postings will reveal whether it is duplicated. It appears to me that you cannot even find the time to look through the previously approved postings and want someone else to do the work and remind you?

Why are you questioning someone who did not even create the plagiarized posts?

Let me emphasize that requesting a refund is not even a suggestion in the first place.

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this is not a customer service department.

It sort of objectively is, though…? We are customers. You’re serving us by fielding suggestions. I mean, I guess F2P players can submit suggestions, who aren’t technically customers, but I for example am one.

Regardless of semantics, my point is more so that customer service departments in any company exist to build good will and communicate clearly and make the best products they can, etc. Not because it’s some sort of legislative obligation or something. So whether this qualifies for this or that semantically, it should be doing something similar, if Gaijin wants a healthy relationship with its players. Or even if Gaijin simply wants the most efficient farming of good ideas in a utilitarian sense.

you cannot even find the time to look through the previously approved postings

As in… all of them? There’s like, thousands. I did a search, I don’t see anything for this example. I see:

  • Re-run old events (not my idea, seems like a worse idea to me, since a lot of the old events were pretty bad, and Gaijin has learned a lot since then. It would also be boring for people who already did them, unlike the option to swap out new prizes for old ones, since those people can opt for the new prize instead. And everyone is doing a whole new interesting event)

  • Trade convertible RP for event vehicles (nothing to do with my idea, is less lucrative to Gaijin since they don’t get engagement and playtime out of it like events, and less respectful to previous earners of vehicles since this would just instantly gift vehicles to tons of people for no effort)

and I don’t see any others. I also don’t see where the first one has a resolution of “Not possible” or why (if this is indeed the one you were talking about). it just says passed to developers. Where are replies back posted?

(Edit: is this what you want the longer written suggestions to be, though? Actively listing out every similar suggestion and explaining why this one isn’t that? Maybe)

Let me emphasize that requesting a refund is not even a suggestion in the first place.

The suggestion was to give everyone who bought bushes refunds. They can immediately re-buy the bushes if they still want them under the new conditions and abilities of the item. How is that not a suggestion? I don’t understand your reply.

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This is why I said to look things up before asking. Read Section 2: FAQ: Premium Shop. Your rationale is flawed since, according to your logic, premium vehicles that received BR adjustments should all be able to be refunded as they are in different conditions than before.

If your suggestion is denied, you should take the initiative to contact the suggestion moderators and inquire as to why it was rejected. It is not us who are “building that connection” for your suggestion. As previously stated, if you have any questions, please contact the suggestion moderators. This is clearly stated in Suggestion Moderators.

I never said your suggestions were rejected because they were duplicated. The refund is denied because it is not feasible, according to the link I provided above. The usage of current event rewards to swap for prior event rewards is rejected because that defeats the purpose of the player marketplace. I am not sure why this is so difficult to grasp, but here are the reasons.

Finally, this entire trend was unnecessary. If you have any questions regarding your suggestion, please message a suggestion moderator, and we will gladly explain why it was rejected. But if you expect us to respond automatically and “start the connection” regarding why suggestions are rejected, especially if the reasons are obvious, then no. This is my final response to this matter.

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The refund is denied because it is not feasible, according to the link I provided above.

Huh? That link merely says the current refund policy. But… it’s a suggestions forum, the whole point is to suggest new things that are different than how things are currently, no? Every person suggesting anything is saying that they want the current system or policy or game to change and be different than that.

Also, in the case of BR changes, nothing is taken away. You are promised a vehicle that performs at average battle efficiency, and BR keeps it at average battle efficiency, no more or less than promised. In the case of bushes, substantial effectiveness was simple removed in exchange for nothing.

The usage of current event rewards to swap for prior event rewards is rejected because that defeats the purpose of the player marketplace.

Where is the marketplace link for a Ka Chi, or a Sturmtiger, or a Zrinyi I, or an Ikv 73, etc. etc.? The need for some sort of way of obtaining old non-marketplace vehicles from before a player ever joined is well recognized by all kinds of players, content creators, and you even already passed a suggestion to the developers for exactly that purpose here: Rerun old events or add a way to obtain old event vehicles ← why was this passed on and not rejected based on “defeating the purpose of the marketplace”? (It’s not a duplicate either though, since it says to rerun the exact literal old events)

If you have any questions regarding your suggestion

These are simply examples, speaking to the topic of the General Discussion thread we are in that the OP asked about. I’m not that concerned about the topics for their own sake.

They are serving here more to demonstrate that when people suggest things in the suggestions forum, they are routinely rejected for whimsical reasons that extend beyond the posted rules for suggestions, and involve a lot of personal opinion, taste, subjective interpretation, and assumptions (often incorrect ones, such as that all old vehicles are available in the marketplace)

Making it not a very useful forum at all – to directly answer the title.

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If you want to think about it this way, so be it.

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I wasn’t talking about maps. I was talking about the drastic improvement of the economy, research tree reworks, and selectable night battles.

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It’s not an improvement on the gameplay. I think you have a bad perception of the word “Gameplay or System”!!!

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Hi, i was wondering how this section and the FAQ handles the EU laws on digital commerce and the 2 year guarantee period.
" Under EU rules, a seller must repair, replace, or give you a full or partial refund if something you buy turns out to be faulty or doesn’t look or work as advertised. You always have the right to a minimum 2-year guarantee , at no cost. However, national rules in your country may give you extra protection."
i would argue that a change in BR for vehicles or a change in function/look of decals/decorations would fall under “doesn’t look or work as advertised” as it changed after purchase. the customer would then have bought a vehicle or decal/decoration with a specific set of functions and specific look with the assumption that the product would be exactly like that. changes to the item after the purchase will make it not work/look as expected by the customer given that it was what they paid for.

source:

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First of all, there are TOS that you signed when you agreed to create an account and the changes you mentioned above will be covered by those.

Second, Gaijin is registered in Hungary, so the local Hungarian laws apply as the EU gives out directives that the local parliaments turn into local law.

Third, you can always file for a refund. If Gaijin approves the refund, your account will have to be permanently disabled as the progress you made with the items you bought can’t be differentiated from the other progress.

Last but not least, you took the decision to give Gaijin money. There are testdrives and changes in the BR range, decals and so on are common practice.

Comment: the YOU I use is not specific to you, but applies to anyone who reads this :D

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In basically any western country, ToS (or any other contract) cannot override the state’s laws. Just like you cannot have employees sign paperwork saying they agree to not have OSHA regulations apply to them, for example. Too bad, they apply anyway, OSHA is still gonna wring you dry if you break rules.

Gaijin is registered in Hungary, so the local Hungarian laws apply

Consumer affairs cases are overwhelmingly the jurisdiction of the consumer, not the company, with very few exceptions. Even if it was Hungary, Hungary is in the EU, my dude… so this would still apply. It would actually apply MORE broadly if you were correct, since then it would also apply to American customers etc.

Third, you can always file for a refund. If Gaijin approves the refund, your account will have to be permanently disabled

That would be a cost. “At no cost” is in the law provided above.

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Although I agree with you that bushes seem to violate this law, I disagree on BR. BR has been advertised for years and years as being adjusted by an algorithm to maintain close to 50% win rates and 1:1 KDs, etc. So them proceeding to do that as they told you they would should not trigger the law. As it was both advertised and also the vehicle isn’t any less effective, since it’s maintained at 50% win rate etc. all the time.

Bushes, however, had no such forewarning, and obviously are much much less effective.

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No, did you not read the EU site?
"Shops or manufacturers might offer you an additional commercial guarantee (also known as a "warranty “). This can give you better protection but can never replace or reduce the minimum 2-year guarantee . The conditions should be laid down clearly in the commercial guarantee, and if they are less advantageous than the conditions that were advertised by the seller, the more advantageous ones apply.”

Yes and no, again EU law can trump local laws. in this case: “However, national rules in your country may give you extra protection.” note; extra protection, not different or less, extra.
and even if we went by Hungarian law, 2 years ago they updated it and expanded the coverage of digital goods from 6 month to one year (https://cms-lawnow.com/en/ealerts/2021/11/hungary-to-tighten-consumer-protection-rules-from-1-january-2022) and has pretty much the same type of protection regarding non-performing goods:
“A significant new change is that businesses will be bound to their published commercial advertisements. If a business undertakes to guarantee the performance of the contract, it is liable for defective performance during the period of the guarantee in accordance with the conditions set out in the related advertisements available at the time of conclusion of the contract or before. If the terms in the guarantee statement are less favourable to the consumer than the terms in the related advertisements, the advertised terms will apply unless the related advertisements were corrected before the conclusion of the contract with the same or similar content as the terms in the guarantee statement.”

this has nothing to do with it.
Example:
If i buy a baking machine, use it for a day, it breaks, i return it. would the store then take all the bread i made that day as i could not have made that much bread without the machine?
it does not apply to the laws cited. that would then be an internal decision from Gaijin and not a law.
and that decision would arguably make me eligible for a refund on everything bought the last two years as i can no longer use the products i paid for (i.e broken or non-performing product).
and additionally, Gaijin FAQ states 3 days and 30 days, well below the EU law time-period. i am curious as to their answer to this.

Yes, that does not change the law.
The same way i can test drive a car, buy it, use it for a while and if it breaks its up to the seller to fix it within the warranty period. me having the ability to testdrive the car beforehand does not change that fact.

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i did not think of that, you are correct since the BR changes are announced as a possibility before purchase.
a change in Rank however would apply here.

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Agreed, however (probably for this exact reason) I don’t think they’ve ever moved a vehicle down in rank that I can remember, only up

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They should, acording to law in many countries … if one day someone sues gaijin, a judge will force that refund

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I lack sufficient knowledge about the EU laws on digital commerce but please keep to the discussion topic. If you have any queries concerning the refund, please contact Customer Service, as they are far more qualified to address your concerns. Thanks! :)

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You realise this does NOT apply to digital goods or did you fail to read the “exceptions” part where it explicity states “online digital content, if you have already started downloading or streaming it and you agreed that you would lose your right of withdrawal by starting the performance” which means your entire point about “warranty” simply does not apply here.

Digital goods are under an entirely different branch of consumer protection because its not under the same set of criteria as physical goods are.

EU law is subjective because if said law is a regulation then it has to be enforced on a national level but can still be disputed (but that takes time) IF its a directive then its simply incorperated into there national legislation with potential tweaks to fit the national law and its implementation, there is a reason why EU legislation is not allowed to infringe up national legislation (to an extent) because EU isnt a country but a set of member states with there own governing bodies which still have to enact national laws/legislation and can still block EU directives/legislation.

So EU law is not abosolute and in this case with regards to refunds, EU law explicity states you have up to 14 days for a refund or a right of withdrawal as its called but that doesnt apply to digital goods and they DONT have to offer a refund (they can but thats up to the seller) if the item is not faulty, so a great example would be thebush packs, they still function as bushes (under decorations) so legally speaking EU law would have ZERO say on any matter if gaijin simply made the bushes smaller, different colour, or made them destructible like they are now.

However if gaijin removed them from all owners, they “might” be required under EU law to offer refunds due to the item no longer being available BUT if the ToS states otherwise OR they simply follow the existing legislation on digital goods then legally speaking no they dont have to refund you. because they have been purchased using real currency through conversion to a digital currency but just like in the past with modifications gaijin do offer the GE back as a result so I dont suspect they decline a refund if they ever did decide to remove them.