That doesn’t fix anything, that causes less movement for balancing without solving the problems.
compression is when vehicle with far and wide performance gap is at 1.0 BR range, this is the case in all tier even starting with 1.7 BR.
1.0 matchmaking allows for vehicle balancing to be easiest, as there are 4 places for the vehciles.
With 0.7, there are only 3 places for the vehicles.
In an example of Maus & Tiger 2, currently there are two places between them.
In a 0.7 system, they’d need to be made closer [compressed] to stay balanced, and that would mean there’s only one place between them.
Because 6.7 & 7.7 heavy tanks aren’t compressed relative to each other.
No it isn´t you literally only get 1 in-between step compared to the current 2! With current system you get one more step for smaller adjustments.
This is clear demonstration how you don´t understand primary school math. Because when I stretch current 1.0 - 12.0 BR scale to 120.0 I will get scale which goes 10, 13, 17, 20, 23, 27, 30, 33, … , 113, 117, 120. And then when I use ±10 I would get precisely the same system as we have now just with larger numbers.
To “fix” balance/MM you can do two things make the ± spread smaller or streach the BR scale. If I do it by same factor both solution result in exactly the same MM potential. But with streaching the scale I still retain the smaller steps to make small balance adjustments.
I can clearly see that you didn´t look at the table I provided
- Your system will still go 1.0 - 1.3 - 1.7 - 2.0 - 2.3 - 2.7 ect but you will meet only ±0.7 so just two steps
- In my system the new BR will be (it is exatly same vehicles pool as in your example the BR were just adjusted) 1.0 - 1.3 - 1.7 - 2.0 - 2.3 - 2.7 - 3.0 - 3.3 - 3.7 ect. but the x.3 spaces are unused.
That is the same result! How it is so hard to understand that?!
I will leave it up to others to decide if what you wrote makes any sence. This is what you originaly wrote VVVV
I wrote: VVVV
Which is basically the same thing as this: VVVV
You run the scrip one time to change the BRs according to the streached scale. After that you don´t need to do anything with the script and you do things as you always done.
In both cases you will essentialy need day 0 BR adjustment patch regardless of the methodt you use to redo the balancing for almoast all vehicles because some vehicles will suddenly be much more powerful because they won´t no longer face their biggest thread or won´t be sucked up/down to some popular BR black holes. So you will already be readjusting almoast all BR (or at very least checking them) before the release. You might as well not change the spread and just do the thing you will need to do regardless.
No it isn´t you literally only get 1 in-between step compared to the current 2! With current system you get one more step for smaller adjustments. So you only have 50% of the ability to make small adjustments. Or in other way you have only 75% (at best) of the possible balancing adjustments you can make. Compared to the current spread.
With the ±0.7, if need to adjust vehicle you move it up or down 0.3 which is essentialy half of the 0.7.
With current system you move vehicle up or down by the same 0.3 but that is one third of the 1.0.
HOW?! I literally just showed you how the current system can make more detailed adjustments. You are simply deciding to ignore it.
1 Like
btw, we’ve been asking for 0.7 MM spread since 2014 …
4 Likes
The results for my table and the ±0,7 the exactly the same.
Sorry I’m new to this argument but the fact that the 0.7 table and your suggestion have supposedly the same result (It might) means that they both are fighting for decompression right?
Also the easier and more practical change would be the matchmaking change. Due to not having to rename every single br and having no completely empty brs (1.3, 2.3 3.3, 4.7, 5.7, 7.0, 8.0, 9.0, etc). Your change means that majority of the tech tree would have to re br’d in order to fill these holes. While the 0.7 mm change does in your words
While not going through the extra effort of adding 5 br brackets. I understand your concerns about not having enough places for better or precise adjustment, but if we can have this now we can get your idea slightly later.
Look most of us in this thread want the same thing Decompression, we may have some differences in the way we want it. But if we work together on this issue and compromise then we have a better chance of getting what we want.
3 Likes
If that is the case, then 0.7 matchmaking spread is better because at the end of the day they don’t need to move every single vehicles up and down, they just need to tweak some vehicle BR by .3 or .7 and call it a day. they can still always add new BR range in case they wanted to add new rank but having .7 matchmaking spread would, at the end of the day, answered the massive performance gap a whole BR gave beyond 4.0 ground and 3.0 aircraft where everyone is pretty much the same.
Win win.
Next problem to address would be stat-based balancing, give Re.2005 5.3.
2 Likes
@七-十三_H14 @Crus94 at least we are moving somewhere. Now that we finally established that we can reach same result with both decompression and the ±0.7 spread. We can talk about the advantages and disadvantages of each system.
My point from the start is that the ±0.7 has basically no advantages and it is just bad bandaid solution.
The only possible advantage of the ±0.7 spread change is that it could in theory be done quickly. That is the only advantage that solution has and even this isn´t strictly true. Even if Gaijin were to suddenly decide to use the ±0.7 (which they wont) they would still need to do an audit of all BRs from 1.0 to 12.0 because the change can have several domino efect consequences so Gaijin would need to go over these BR regardless.
Which means regardless of the approach they would choose they would need to go over BRs. But then there is no reason to choose the “quick” solution and they can skip the spread change and just go over the BRs from the start.
Even then the “decompression” methodt isn´t that much harder to do since if they want quick and dirty methodt they can just use find and replace function and they will have the BRs adjusted in no time.
As for the table it was made simple to demonstrate that we can have same outcome with both methodts. But I imagine that if we were to get the decompression there would be changes
- Not all BRs need to be decompressed mainly low tiers don´t need decompression
- During the process of decompression there should be further changes to BR for balancing purposes which would result in the “unused” BRs being populated too.
2 Likes
The main reason imo that 0.7 was suggested was due to it being a easier to implement feature, as baum said earlier could potentially be as easy as changing a line of code. Doing the 0.7 change would be a really good change with immediate effects. While some vehicles will need to be balanced it would be roughly the same as the routine br changes we have. Also having the ±2 br’s is a great long term change as well (outlined by baum above).
Now this change is not a permanent or perfect solution we will need the addition of battle ratings at some point, some point soon in line with your suggestion. The rebalancing could serve as a stage two for decompression, initiated after the roadmap. Where every vehicle is rebalanced into X number of br brackets, as you know this will take a while for everything to be ready. So Stage One could be the more immediate .7 matchmaking change that would need some but not too much editing and then stage Two the more permanent long term extension of the br range and subsequent “Great Rebalancing”.
These are my thoughts on the matter, please forgive formatting mobiles a pain
It’s time to give up and start asking for decompression with the rest of the community.
There are too many BRs for a 0.7 system currently.
And Shadow illustrates very well how horrific 0.7 would be on the game.
@Crus94
Changing the BRs of most vehicles needs to occur whether we stay with 1.0 or compress to 0.7.
It’s INFINITELY easier to just change BRs since it has to be done regardless, instead of changing BRs with a worse matchmaking system.
@七-十三
Nah, most vehicle BRs would need to change with 0.7 as well. There is no win win, it’s just more work for a worse result.
Everyone but you knows 0.7 is decompression just you think it is compression. just you have made 0 arguments for your points. So maybe just maybe shut up now?
There are more than enough BRs as you can literally make a 0.7 system work with just 4BRs from 1.0 to 4.0. The number of BR`s ios utterly irrelevant
Shadows system, as he says and someone else proved, shows literally that 0.7 and his have the exact same result. So no you are simply wrong as you always are
there is no “compress to 0.7” nothing is being compressed. removing vehicles which should not be in a BR range is decompression. 0.7 removes vehicles from matches of a BR range. 0.7 is decompression.
You still don`t know what compression is even after I told it to you in a way a three year old would understand
no they would not stop making this stupid claim over and over again I disproved it ages ago. You are just repeating falsehoods at this point or in otherwords you are spamming
I don’t think you understand the difference between compression and decompression, also his table just shows how the 0.7 method and extending the br range achieve the same result just with different methods
Decompression means the Re 2005 at 6.0 doesn’t have to face jets.
Sorry, but we know what we’re talking about being against decompression.
This is why we don’t take your pro-compression arguments seriously, you look down on everyone that wants decompression.
@Crus94
And if you’re against compression, you agree with me
War Thunder has 24 MM tiers, WOT only has MM 10 tiers.
And now Baum claims that compression is decompression, and that me arguing for decompression is bad.
I’ve not picked a fight with ANYONE on this forum, but I’m being attacked for arguing for decompression.
I thought decompression was popular, but having 3 people push hate toward everyone that argues for decompression is depressing.
If you guys are genuinely for decompression, you’d agree with myself & Shadow.
But you’re too focused on a flawed idea that indirectly causes compression.
@_Baum
@七-十三_H14
Just ignore him he’s obviously either trolling or doesn’t understand how this stuff works. He is not worth our time. If possible flag him under mod review and hope for the best
1 Like
If you argued for decompression you wouldn’t be arguing for 0.7 which would reduce the top BR from 12.0 to probably 10.0 or less.
Because what you don’t realize is Tiger 2 drops to 6.3, and Maus drops to 7.0.
Because the separation of heavy tanks is balanced in WT currently.
This math isn’t hard either.
Me: “Decompress the game.”
You: “I disagree!”
Razer it won’t reduce the brs of vehicles only the range of vehicles out can see in a match
That’s it, nothing more
No battle ratings are being changed, 0.7 ain’t being taken off every vehicle, it just means the 7.0 will see up to 7.7 or down to 6.3 instead of 8.0 and 6.0
It HAS to reduce BR of most vehicles in order to keep balanced.
Tiger 2 & Maus can kill each other, with one obviously superior but still vulnerable.
Their BRs would need to compress in order to stay balanced, otherwise the imbalance kills the Maus with permanent uptiers, with no 6.7 to downtier to, Maus is stuck only ever seeing 8.3 matches for the rest of its days.
Razer the vehicles are balanced for their battle rating, their specific battle rating not the extremes of what they can see
meaning that if the match making changes then there is less extremes to be fought, the maus will fight 7.0 instead. (The maus is hard to balance so it’s a bad example)