The recent BR adjustment plan has disappointed me. Although this is a good thing, I don’t think the new plan is good. Whether it’s tanks or airplanes, the current BR is too crowded, and such adjustments will only shift questions. I am wondering if adjusting the BR float to ± 0.7 can improve this issue? Even with ± 0.3, there will still be a significant performance gap (such as MIG21MF and MIG21SPS). The difference generated by BR ± 1 may be too large.
No, that would require all vehicles in WT to have their BRs adjusted, which would just create more work than just decompressing based on the +/- 1 it currently is.
Not only that, but +/- 1 gives Gaijin 4 BRs to balance vehicles instead of 3 with 0.7.
Decompression as a whole is superior as it’s faster to accomplish & keeps the BR range between matchable vehicles 4 levels of precise instead of 3 levels of precise.
A collection of takes from the 0.7 matchmaker crowd:
You repeat that very often, yet it´s still complete nonsense.
More to balance is literally the worst you can have. You want less to balance
“And It would create work” is the laziest excuse I have ever heard.
Yes it is fully feasable and the only way to improve the Matchmaker
The current “decompression” trend will fail as Decompression can only work by removing border line Vehicles to strong for -1BR anbd to weak for +1BR from the game.
We will end up with Rank 20 31.7BR tanks with 1 vehicle ever 2 ranks if we decompress to the point where balance can be achived.
Better to limit the Spread so some vehicles can finally move down in BR because they can no longer meet the reason for their High BR
Lets simply take the CHurchil VII as the perfect example.
It is one of the least dangerous tanks on the battlefield RN because of its 100mm pen at point blank 0° or more realistically its 60-70mm at 30° 300m
So this heavy tank can not penetrate Even most 3.7 tanks in the game let alone 5.7 yet it sits at 4.7. Why? Because 50mm+ guns which are needed to overmatch it are not common until 3.3 so it needs to be at least 4.3. if we lower the spread to 0.7 it could however be at 4.0 as it would still only ever meet 3.3 tanks all without a single vehicle moving around besides it and it would now max face 4.7 vehicles, vehicles which it can only pen inconsistently, which it shares a BR with right now.
So just by changing the spread from 1.0 to 0.7 we can down BR a Tank from 4.7 to 4.0 and make it a better performer while also making life better or keeping it the same for every other vehcile.
And so: No! almost no vehicle will need to be adjusted with this change.
Over time some will move up or down as usual, but that is no adititional work.
You know what aditional work is?
Moving 300 vehilces in the same patch just for the BR range 7.0 to 8.0 while changing the BR spread to 0.7 would have cut that number from 300 to just around 20. All while having the same positive effect without the mass compression at 8.0-9.0 we are getting now.
Every tank which was moved by 0.3 BR could have stayed in a 0.7BR MM spread because it woudl nolonge rmeet the tanks which caused the up BR.
So arguning that
Is just ignorance of what is happening this very moment.
@七-十三_H14 @FleursDuMal79
BR decompression with a 1.0 matchmaker is superior with less work than BR compression with 0.7 matchmaker that requires even more work.
1.0 allows for far more control over balancing than 0.7.
no it does not.
Firstly as I already said if you adjust the MM not a single one of the 0.3 increases of the 300+BR changes sheduled would neet to happen. That is less work.
AFte that you simply monitor just as they always have.
There is much precedent for this in other games. WoWs; WoT; Enlisted and some others.
Tell me What reason do you have to believe that Gajin would need to adjust every single BR inorder to make a simple 0.7 BR spread work? Why would they need to change the Comet I´s BR from 5.3 to sth else just because it now can only meet tanks betwen 4.7 and 6.0? There is not a single reason to instantly change its BR. It is also very unlikely to suddenly overperform or underperfrom from this new Range. And if it does Gajin can adjust it down the line
3.0;3.3;3.7;4.0;4.3;4.7;5.0 = 7 steps
3.3;3.7;4.0;4.3;4.7 = 5 steps.
Where is the 4 and 3 categories? What are you even talking about
Well noone here opposes decompression. It is just a fakt that it will not solve the MM issues as the MM is a system using BR`s but the System is broken. So fixing the Data will not fix the System.
Decompression and adjusting of the MM system are related but not exclusive and they should both happen
I’ll repeat here what I said in the other thread.
~70% of vehicles are already perfectly balanced, and thus would need their BRs changed in the compressed direction to be balanced under a 0.7 system.
We as players complain about the 15 - 30% of vehicles that face utter compression.
9.0 - 10.7 aircraft.
For ground: 2.3, 5.7, 6.7 is being decompressed now, and 7.7 is having some major decompression as well.
That’s not most vehicles.
Light tanks aren’t compressed in WT at all, they’re just too low of BRs really.
1.0, 1.3, 1.7, 2.0: 4 steps of balancing.
1.0 - 1.7 is only 3 steps, which is less choices & far more difficult than 1.0 to 2.0.
There are no issues with the matchmaking system.
There’s an issue with vehicle placement [an issue with compression].
No they would not.
As it stand BR 6.7 to 12.0 are completely comprtessed hence why they try to change 6.7 to 8.0 so your 15-30% claim is not even applicable
There are many many issues with it. And you saying there are not is the same as Gajin saying that players wanted to pay exorbitant SL repairs and face the massive grind.
The amount of work dictates how much time it will take to implement the changes.
The less work it requires the faster it can be addressed.
Sure buddy, except this particular line implies that you don’t want to wait for improvements, you’re the one talking about workload and implementation time, not me, I just want it to be implemented, don’t care about the timetable.
just give people a choice - half a year of testing - do you prefer longer queues and 0.7 BR difference or faster joining and +/-1 BR.
Just give it a choice.
It is alarming and at the same time amusing how many people think that BR spred 0.7 is somehow feasible, possible and even good idea. The people who think that way really need to check their math and critical thinking.
The idea itself is just dumb, for many reasons.
In terms of UI one simple rule should be followed KEEP IT SIMPLE the 0.7 spread is in complete opposition to that. Comparing 0.7 to 1.0 spread is like comparing imperial and metric one will be inherently superior all the time
Check this line 1.3 1.7 2.0 2.3 2.7 3.0 3.3 ect. and now check what is the BR spread for example for 1.7 it is +0.6 and -0.7! Is there a difference? No. Does it like there should be? Yes!
This optical discrepency is something why any competent UI designer would throw the idea right eway in just the first look.
The current ±1.0 also allow more adjustment as it has 4 steps for the given battle MM x.0, x.3, x.7 and y.0 (and yes it is actually 4 steps because you can´t face +1 and -1 at the same time. And everthing which can be done by ±0.7 can be done with the superior ±1.0. And writing script to rewrite the BRs wouldn´t be that hard here is a table how the new BRs would look like if they were to be decompressed as with the ±0.7 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13h8pFzf32lUyOF6nyHCy6OqbpqAu_kLcWQEHzNkBW04/edit?usp=sharing
There simply aren´t any inherent upsides to the ±0.7 only downsides. If you want better balance please ask for decompression insead of this nonsence
As mentioned, it really would mean changing/adjusting the BR of every . . . single . . . vehicle in the game to some degree. Currently the BR’s are set up in “thirds”, meaning for example 1.0, 1.3, 1.7 and then 2.0. The confusion for almost everyone is that they rounded off the BR’s, they are actually 1.00, 1.33 rounded down to 1.3, 1.66 rounded up to 1.7 and then to 2.0. It would only be possible to make 0.75 spread +/- if they added another number to the “set”. Making it 1.0, 1.25, 1.50, 1.75 & then 2.00. Now the great thing about this, besides making things possible to be a 0.75 +/- spread, this would also require the changing of everything and decompress BR’s by a great deal. It would make it possible to run the high end of BR’s to 15.00 or even to 20.00. But I am afraid the amount of work, the player angst of not getting everything just so and the vast wastelands of BR’s that would not be able to catch games just doesn’t seem to make this option possible . . not at this time. Unless the players themselves did a vast majority of the work for this AND we had a large influx of players, around the clock, it just does seem practical or feasible . . . but I think it is a wonderful dream to have anyway . . . but alas . . . it may only be a dream
Is 4 a greater number than 3?
0.7 exclusively has downsides & is BR compression.
It is superior to just decompress as your suggestion would ruin the game & cause more imbalance.
No it would not.
Infact it is against the very reason why a 0.7 spread is what is asked for. If done the 0.7 change would be useless
you do realise that this is irrelevant? The MM is currently fully capable of making 0.7 matches.
Not every game needs to be +1BR anything from +0 to +1 is supported and can happen. So no there is no need to modify the MM beyond removing the +1 and -1 filter.
as neither exists in the current system it is irrelevant.
either it is a balance of 7 (2.0 to 4.0 for a 3.0 vehicle) or a set of 5 for a 3.0 in 0.7BR matchmaking.
neither 4 sets or 3 sets are an option. As I mentioned just because both things can not happen at the same time does not mean that only one is relevant for balance EVERY tank in the game right now has to be balanced in 7 different sets of circumstances against 6 different sets of capabilities if we exclude its own BR
reducing that number to 4 (incidentally the number you seem to prefer so much) makes balance much easier in the long run. We already have proof of that from games like WoT and WoWs which saw massive benefits from narrowing their MM.
4 exists currently.
1.0, 1.3, 1.7, and 2.0 is 4.
0.7 is 3.
4 is greater than 3, which makes 1.0 superior than 0.7.
0.7 is BR compression, everyone knows its BR compression so you cannot trick us otherwise.
War Thunder currently has a narrower matchmaker than WoT.
From 1.0 to Maus is 7.7, with a matchmaker of 1.
WT’s 1.0 is WoT’s tier 2.
Tier 2 to tier 10 is 9, divided by 2 is 4.5.
In WT’s system Maus would be BR 4.7 if it copied WoT.
where is it compression? where do I add more vehicles into the mix? THAT IS WHAT COMPRESSION IS MORE VEHICLES OF DIFFERENT ABILITY IN THE SAME BR. Not a lower number of BR`s You can have 20 million vehicles at the same BR and 0 compression. You seem to fundamentaly not understand what decompression is about. It is about removing over capable tanks and planes from a BR range Which can be achived by moving it up in BR, which also necessitates that the max BR is increased. It can also be achived by not letting said vehicle into matches where it dominates like the Maus in 6.3 games , Limiting the MM to 0.7 achives the result of decompression without moving hundrets of tanks around.
And less is more for balance. A 7.0 vehicle is 100% more capable than any 6.0 one and the two should not meet.
You can not balance a 100% gap in capabilities. You never will be able to.
thats 6.7 but numbers and you do not go along I notice.
No. WoT T1 is Br 1.0 and 8.0 is T10 almost perfectly. but that does not matter at all.
What matters is that you can balance a narrower sett of stats better than a wider one. If you have 100 near identical sets of stats balance is easy. if you have 100 completely different ones it gets harder.
Your very reason for not wanting this is flawed.
You do not seem to understand even what decompression is and you do not understand how data analysis works on a fundamental level.
ok, so where does a 3.7 BR fit into a 2.7 - 3.4 match? . . oh wait, there is no 3.4 so you do not have a 0.7 spread, that is 0.6 & you can’t have it both ways. The math does not support a simple change to 0.7, this is true across the board for certain BRs. They cannot simply “flip a switch” and change all of the MM’ers choices to 0.7 +/- . . . it does not compute, and that is literally the reason they can’t “just do it”
it is 0.7 as you said it is rounded. that is a 0.7 match as we have it in game at this very moment. At this point you are arguing about miniscule details which change nothing about the system I proposed whatsoever. You can make it apples watermelosn and toast and it would not change a thing.
It will be a Two down two up system regardless of if one sidee is rounded to 0.7 and one to 0.6.
they can, they have and they can again.
As I sated 0.7 MM is in the game today. There are 7.0 to 7.7 games happening with not a single 6.7 or 8.0 lineup in the match. there are 5.3 games with 6.0 tanks but not a single 5.0 or 6.3 tank in the match.
The matchmaker is fully capable of doing that. it can even do a 100% 5.0 match with nothing but 5.0 tanks. it can also do 0.3 matches as well.
You didn´t read properly I will explain it plainly. For example you have some vehicle at BR 3.3 now with spread ±0.7 you can meet vehicles at BRs 2.7, 3.0, 3.3, 3.7 and 4.0. And now if you look at the diffece between you and the lowest/highest BR possible you wil find out that the spread is uneven.
no it does not
Count with me 1.0, 1.3, 1.7 and 2.0 that is four steps. And for the ±0.7 spread we have 1.0, 1.3 and 1.7 which is three. Four steps is more then three, with current system you essentialy have two inbetween slots wheras with the ±0.7 you have just one. That is big downside.
absolutely irellevant and wrong. Your tanks stats do not change if you face +1 or -1 so it is the same stats needing to be balanced in all scenarios just because best and worst can not happen at the same time does not mean that only one needs to be looked at. This is again utter bullshit.
The stats don´t change but you only ever face one side of the spread, if you were to balance vehicles from scratch and gradually you would only ever need to look at one side of the spread. Of corse if you want to insert vehicles into already populated BR range then you would need to look at both sides of the sprea but still you only have 4 steps. Or you can count 7 but that is quibble and irrelevant gotcha you are pulling.
Your two point boil down to
Visuals matter (which is already out of the windo)
and Sth which is complete and utter nonsense.
0.7 has many upsides and you choose to ignore them all and want to focus on the impossible dream of having 1 tank at 1.0 one at 3.0 and so on so nothing can meet anything. Which is the endgame of decompression if done alone.
Yes visuals matter! That is whole point of the UI design. If you actually bothered to properly look at what I wrote you would know that I never ever mentioned what you are describing in the last paragraph. And I had shown how you can achieve axactly the same result as is ±0.7 with current system.
And I would like to see the “upsides” of the 0.7 you are talking about I have yet to see any when I compare it to current one with 0.7 decompresssion (e.g. expanding the range to 17 or so).