NP - even acknowledging that i saw a lot of good points on both sides - gaijin has the tendency to set their game mechanics always in their favor.
Classic exampleS:
They prevent very effectively to pay the 5.000 SL sole survivor reward.
I play very often 1 vs 1s as last players alive. In order to get this reward you need to pilot snipe the last enemy. A player not jumping out of a killed plane counts as “alive” - so you won’t get the reward. If you just kill the plane, the ticket bleed starts immediately - giving you in 95-99% of the cases no time to kill the pilot as this happens usually late game. So the tickets run out before he crashes or you can turn around to kill the pilot.
Same as the 5.000 SL “Mission decider” reward for first and last ai or player kill.
I gave up to create support tickets like this one:
https://support.gaijin.net/hc/en-us/requests/1750350
Most players are not even aware of these flaws. I was forced to create a bug report which is still not processed:
Community Bug Reporting System
…despite this happened 3 times within 5 weeks - and still happens today.
I actually have found a lot of evidence on the contrary to this.
Credit Where It’s Due | Air & Space Forces Magazine.
And as far as code goes, we know the game tracks locations from player to player with radar. So at the very least some sort of array is set up and functional that can track at least 8 players on location to your aircraft and a missile with great accuracy provided you aren’t lagging horrifically. We also know that once an aircraft is tagged with any sort of player caused damage it is then tracked until it can no longer fly or is repaired and the kill is rewarded. Many games utilize what appears to be a bubble to define areas around players and afflict certain status affects. For example in “Infamous” a force shield shocking people, and you could do several hundred at one time haha. Anyway I wouldn’t be surprised if they could add an invisible tag that is simply added by proximity, like being shot by a single round but it does 0 damage. (Technically old bombers used to be able to do this back in 2013 and AI gunners were just a visual indication) Whoever has the last “tag” based off a missile or aircraft proximity could then receive the maneuver kill. And simply add a checksum for distance from any other player or missile, if it’s greater than some arbitrary number, then it doesn’t count as anything.
Coding is all smoke and mirrors at its heart for a lot of games. Again my coding language is Matlab, quite a bit different id imagine to gaijins coding, but if there’s one thing I learned while learning from other people is that if you are creative enough you can code it. The best part of this mechanic is that it’s all invisible and doesn’t have to have any smoke or mirrors to create an illusion that’s believable. But again, idk, just spit balling here and I have a hunch it’s not as far fetched as it seems to you.
Most other games don’t need this feature. Name 1 other game with a real following and player base that would require this feature. Because DCS doesn’t have the grind warthunder does that makes the player base need kills so they don’t care and just count it themselves. IL2 games are so old now that it probably never came up, and the grind wasn’t a thing there either. And all the other flight games with a large following are mostly PvE. My point simply being you’re probably correct that no other game has this feature, however it’s not because it’s impossible, but because it hasn’t been needed.
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Again, program it. Be the first ever programmer in the history of gaming to program it.
Never give players that don’t deserve the credit credit.
ALL shooters “require” this feature as much as War Thunder does.
War Thunder doesn’t have a grind exclusively tied to player kills for air. The best grinding method is fragging tanks with bombs and 20mm+ cannons.
Idk, when I consistently get 4+ player frags a game and get over 20k rp in under 10 minutes it sure beats a match of ground pounding 😅 (unless we are talking sim, which of course doesn’t matter because the score system and in which case you’re right)
Nah, maneuver kills are a real thing IRL, and call of duty doesn’t need them because running into a cargo container doesn’t kill you, looking at a tree wrong doesn’t kill you, touching grass doesn’t kill you, etc… Ace combat you just bounce off the ground because it’s focus is strictly action etc… Warthunder should have it because historically there are maneuver kills and they have been counted by several air forces and Warthunders allure is their accuracy, and the players demand is based off easing the grind at its core and obtaining credit where they feel it is due.
I do not work unpaid, my labor rate is in the hundreds per hour and I got there because I don’t believe in free work. Someone better than me that knows gaijins code that believes in free labor can do it… Or… The paid developers that are very skilled (this game is impressive by almost any metric) can figure it out because it IS possible. Again I never said it was easy to tie in, however it CAN be done.
I just think the defeatist attitude of “it can’t be done” is silly in real life and silly here too so I choose to comment because I know it can be. Just like the people before the Wright brothers KNEW flight was possible despite being told it wasn’t. It’s just a matter of thinking outside the box. If the developers want to do it they can take ideas from us and see if they work, but codifying it is the job of someone paid to do it.
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I do wish that there was this kind of thing. but with how unreliable the missile evaded message is I doubt it would often reward the right players
You are demanding that a random game developer do something no other developer has done before.
There is no proof that said thing is even possible.
And you won’t produce the proof yourself.
Ah, a do as I say not as I do type of attitude.
It’s an anti-player feature and you’d know this if you’d think about it further instead of demanding people do experimental things that will likely cause the most backlash in any game’s history.
Agree to disagree, I don’t believe rewarding people is anti player… we will end the conversation here because there’s no further discussion to be had. And do try to be a little less personal alvis. Last time we talked I don’t believe you mentioned having a psychology degree or degree in any sort of gaming, so I don’t believe you are qualified to talk on that aspect, and I won’t pretend to be either. Either way it’s just an opinion and you and I both know that type of argument is beneath you.
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@FlyingWarlord
You’re rewarding players that did nothing, and you’re punishing players that made mistakes.
Nothing good comes form that, and this entire topic is personal.
I don’t want frags that I didn’t put work into, and I don’t want others rewarded for not damaging me.
Same goes for first person shooters.
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This idea only benefits one group of people: Teamkillers.
It doesn’t benefit those of us that are skilled, we get dopamine from our own work, not being handed things.
It doesn’t benefit the mediocre; They need incentive to learn, and this would end that incentive.
Why learn to aim and get hits on target when all you need to do is hover behind the enemy aircraft in a slower more maneuverable jet until they make a mistake…
This idea if I teamkill someone in the method I won’t describe, an enemy gets rewarded the kill and I have a defense. “I didn’t teamkill them, the enemy killed them.”
This idea is a moderation, rewards psychology, and programming nightmare.
And the only reason to support it from this study is if I was a teamkiller. Since I’m not a teamkiller, I oppose this idea.
It hurts those that want to feel rewarded, and it hurts those that are already hurt from the mistake they made.
No one wins.
On the flip side, you’re rewarding players who out-flew their opponent.
You aren’t punishing the person crashing by adding manoeuvre kills, if anything it’s better than the current system due to that player not getting a crew lock. It wouldn’t be that easy to add, but something should be added. It isn’t rewarding to either player to end up with one player getting nothing, and the other getting a crew lock.
Maybe Gaijin could make those kills count as only 50% of the reward, rather than 100%.
Maybe in niche scenarios, but it benefits everyone too. I want players who crash to avoid getting killed, to have their kill credit go to someone who probably deserves it.
I want to be rewarded for outflying the enemy.
It doesn’t hurt anyone. If you crash, you crash. It being to a player or nothing doesn’t make that much of a difference. It also harms players who intentionally crash because it does the opposite of what they want, which is good.
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Now this is off-topic in a good way.
You want to reward people for out-flying others? Sure, that’s still not a frag, that’s not a kill, that’s not anything other than avoiding crashing yourself; the issue is no one’s still coded it in any other game.
You can have it as a new stat, maybe, but not as a frag. As a frag you get into the issues I brought up in the shower thoughts post you replied to.
So don’t credit kills, but credit a survivorship reward or something linguistically similar.
Cause you don’t want a game of players feeling like their frags are devalued.
You remember the backlash when severe damage took 80% of the reward and 20% was locked behind finishing off the aircraft? And that’s putting in the work to get that severe damage.
Also those that intentionally crash are exceedingly rare.
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This source is biased like hell and not worth to reference.
Example? Quote:
For every six enemy aircraft shot down by USAF pilots during the Korean War, the Air Force lost one.
If you invest 5 minutes you find out that the USAF reduced their success rate (F-86 vs MiG 15) from 10:1 to 5:1 - and it looks like that even 2:1 is far away from the truth. Even the low quality source of wikipedia is aware of this.
You are referring air forces like the USAAF which even rewarded an ace status for strafing unmanned parked enemy aircraft - which resulted in the complete senseless deaths of hundreds of their pilots (10-15 minutes research) as their pilots were lured into high risk strafing runs on well defended airfields in pursuit of getting the desired status.
The topic maneuver kill is extremely rare in memoirs / biographies of any pilot of any nation - if you are an US citizen you might have read about Budd Anderson or Gabreski, i can’t remember any reference to this.
Regarding accuracy allure of wt:
This is imho nothing more than a marketing strategy. Compromises to make the game “playable” are just minor things (deadly g-goads, mouse aim, etc.) - as soon it gets interesting you read all of a sudden about “balancing” or “reasons”. The major part of forum posts deals with large gaps between reality and wt implementations.
Player demands for easing the grind:
It is the same if gaijin would ask:
“should press the button To Battle reward you automatically with 20k SL & 5k RP?”
You might predict the number / percentage ratio of “yes” answers.
You can’t expect a company doing everthing the can to increase the difficulty to grind with every possible open or covert action / mechanic to think about implementing a thing similar to a pure participation reward.
You as a highly experienced player should have zero issues to find enough players you can outfly - as we talk about Air RB you might agree that getting a kill became way easier in the last 5 years than before.
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And how do you feel about the crash timers right now?
And if you replaced crash timers with 0 timers taking away that penalty and just rewarded someone without physically taking away the ability to play the game, would that not be an improvement?
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Better than NON
And he would have the kill if he has a hit.
Both have got no hits and crash, wel just use this logic, or a human operator would be needed
No, not better than none, because Gaijin wouldn’t just have people getting free frags.
No… that’s just not going to happen. Gaijin employees can’t just sit there 24/7 watching games.
Then you would only make the situation worse, by completely allowing everyone to crash before the enemy gets a kill, and I highly doubt the SL & RP reward would be the same as getting a full kill, like how we have the “Aircraft finished off” mechanic, and we’ll be back to talking about this again, that would definitely not be an improvement. What we have in-game is currently the best middle ground right now
So we try to use a logic that is good enough, tho cannot always be perfect, just need to ensure one can’t kill himself to avoid rewarding the enemy
Gaijin’s issue 1/1, & indeed their issue
This has already been discussed so many times. People should not be rewarded for simply staying in the air longer than their opponent, in fact they already are, it’s called having one less enemy on your team to deal with, and in situations where it’s a 1v1 in Air RB, that usually means it’s the end of the game, and you’ll have the win anyways, which grants you much better RP and SL bonuses than losing.
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Looks like you have your personal “Groundhog Day” - gl & hf!
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I know I feel like I’m going insane at this point xD
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