both the Ostwind II and the Zerstörer 45 existed in real life, but only as rare, late-war prototypes that never entered full mass production.
Ho ri did not even made it to first stage.
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tel aviv impressed
The Production vehicle in general is a very loose representation of what an improved Ho-Ri vehicle could be like. Its cannon is a very small improvement in velocity over the real cannon. Ironically it is also the most realistic part of that vehicle.
The real Ho-Ri was in construction at the end of the war and was partially built. The ones in-game were not, but this thread is just about the cannon which was real.
Also:
Ho-Ri Production can see a total of 4 tanks, excluding SPAAs and autocannons, that cannot penetrate its 200mm casemate.
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( The real Ho-Ri was in construction at the end of the war and was partially built. The ones in-game were not, but this thread is just about the cannon which was real. ) lmao no
Ho-Ri are historically fake, based on falsified data, and have been officially retired due to their inaccurate designs
While You are correct about the weapon the Experimental 105mm gun was fully built and tested. However, the Ho-Ri hull itself never made it past a wooden mockup, and the sloped variants seen in-game are entirely fictional
This Ho-Ri design never made it past the wooden mockup, you mean. It was one of three.
They are based on a very real, but ultimately rejected design.
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they weren’t rejected designs they were officially approved, but halted by the end of the war. Even with three versions on paper, the only physical hull that ever left the drafting board was that single full-scale wooden mockup for the Ho-Ri I Plan 1
You may want to visit the latest Ho-Ri suggestion.
And the informative thread.
Because what you are saying is simply not true.
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full-scale wooden mockup
It was a small scale mockup. I forgot the exact scale, but the slanted Ho-Ri mockup could fit on your average coffee table. That’s why it lacks any details that a tank would need, such as hatches and vision ports for the driver, because it was an incredibly rough concept and is why it’s believed to have actually been the first design with the Ho-Ri I “Ferdinand” and Ho-Ri II “Jagdtiger” designs following afterwards.
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You are completely right about the project’s historical approval and the physical work done on the chassis. Nobody is disputing that part. However, you are conflating the real Type 5 Ho-Ri II design with the in-game variants.
The specific versions we have in-game are unhistorical for a few undeniable reasons like →
(The Hulls are Wrong) The ‘Prototype’ and ‘Production’ models in-game feature heavily sloped frontal armor. Real archival data proves that the approved design dropped that layout early on, shifting entirely to the Ho-Ri II design, which used a flat, vertical frontal plate similar to a German Jagdtiger.
and (The Engine is a Fantasy) The game gives the vehicle an impossible 800–1,000 HP engine setup that was never actually fitted, nor could it physically function in that hull layout. also The Developers Literally Confirmed This, Gaijin explicitly cited these massive technical inaccuracies and ‘long-debated’ authenticity issues when they officially announced the removal of both Ho-Ri variants from the tech tree. They are treating them exactly like the Panther II and Flakpanzer 341 admitting they are unhistorical gap-fillers.
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I did not.
This is what I said.
The engine is a different matter. I believe the original ‘justification’ was that they confused its engine with O-I’s, which was actually two engines.
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Yeah, the “Prototype” in game got the real gun, only on a misrepresented vehicle that’s very different from the real Ho-Ri, among other things with a completely different vehicle layout and the missing assisted loader.
The “Production” was requested by Gaijin to match top tier back when it was late WWII so among other things the gun got fictional improvements. Iirc it’s a bit longer but I’m not fully sure.
There was a real Ho-Ri, and even five prototypes that were partially made, but it’s very different from either of the vehicles Gaijin added to the game with the Ho-Ri name.
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Yup, its been a nice conversation, Thanks for your time, Cya.
I have to go.
Made it up, like gaijin did
Nope. Neither of them completed full built; Both had the gun made, but the hull wasn’t made. As for the Zestorer, the original plan was to put it in a wimberblind chassis, but for test they mounted it on another anti-air chassis - Flakpanzer IV Möbelwagen.
And this version is the one in-game, even tho the real Zestorer should be a 30mm Wimberblind.
As for the Ostwind II, wait for my edit I need to find my post.
As for the Ho-Ri not reaching anything :
There was 3 possible Ho-Ri : 2 with the central engine (Ho-Ri I’s, 2 with the Chi-Ri hull (not the opposite !)
So there was the 105mm gun, the hull, but it wasn’t made for it.
The second mid-engine variant was with a slopped armor, and there was a wooden mockup built.
So the wooden mockup and the whole canon finished, this makes the most advanced version of the Ho-Ri.
ho-Ri I, Chi-Ri hull
Ho-Ri II
Edit: I can’t find anymore my post, so here is the story quickly:
ostwind II
The main source of historian showing a prototype built is following this lead:
The prototype of the Ostwind II was buit at the Ostbau-Sagan workshop from Silesia (on the left: Silesia region as of 1939), Once the prototype was completed, it was, together with the improved Wirbelwind (known as Zerstörer 45, Eng. Destroyer), transported to the training center at Ohrdruf, in Thuringia.
Due to the Allied advance, the Ostabu-Sagan facility had to be evacuated to Teplitz-Schonau in occupied Czechoslovakia. This caused major delays and confusion during the Flakpanzer production.
Hilary L. Doyle have speculated that not even a prototype was built, alleging Germany’s almost non-existent industrial capacity at the time.
D. Terlisten (Nuts and Bolts Vol.13 Flakpanzer, Wirbelwind and Ostwind) mentions a report from Ostbau-Sagan discovered after the war that mentions that some turrets (plural, although the precise number is not listed) for the Ostwind II were completed. D. Nešić, (Naoružanje Drugog Svetsko Rata-Nemačka) mentions that one prototype was built and that a production order for 100 vehicles was given, which did not materialize due to the end of the war.
Following Terlisten, he states in his article that his source is Mr. Francev (Kořistní zbrojněná vozidla ve výzbroji čs. The Army (Part 3)):
He states that in the VTV (Tank Troop Command) report of October 1947, among the German equipment collected throughout the country, there was an anti-aircraft tank with a twin 3.7 cm gun on a Pz.Kpfw. IV platform.
Text is in >Documuent>20(3).
This is the exact lines. The translation goes to :
Along with the selection of ex-German self-propelled guns , three anti-aircraft tanks on the Pz.Kpfw. IV chassis were selected at the collection point in Milovice for repair and subsequent testing, since consideration was also being given to the use of the 20 surviving combat vehicles of this type (OPL — anti-aircraft — tanks based on Pz.Kpfw. IV) still preserved there. The repair was assigned to the ČKD plant in Praha-Libeň, to which three incomplete vehicles were sent on chassis No. 298/D (reg. no. 79.866), No. 323/D (reg. no. 79.867), and No. 320/D (reg. no. 79.865), which had been found in 1945 at the Kostany railway station.
-Chassis No. 298/D received an eight-sided rotating turret armed with a 37mm anti-aircraft automatic gun vz. 43N, thereby taking on the appearance of an Ostwind tank.
-Chassis No. 323/D (reg. no. 79.867) was likewise fitted with an eight-sided turret, but with a quadruple mount of 2cm Flak 38 (20mm machine cannon vz. 38N), giving it the appearance of a Wirbelwind.
-The third vehicle, No. 320/D (reg. no. 79.865), again received a 37mm PLK vz. 43N gun on a pivoting mount, protected on all sides by folding armor panels, taking on the appearance of a Möbelwagen.
No traces of an Ostwind II here, it was probably misunderstood, a translation issue, …
@jon_man1199 reached Hillary Doyle about the ostwind II and Zestorer.
According to the Ostbau Papers in his possession, neither vehicle reached the prototype stage. He pointed out that the Ostwind II would have required a much larger turret (the one in-game is actually too small), something that, by January 1945, German industry was completely incapable of producing due to the effectiveness of the Allied Bombing Campaign. As far as the 45 goes, he said it only ever reached the test-mule Mobelwagen trials.
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Sure nerf the horsepower and put it to 6.7 like jagtiger and ferdinand then
We are definitely on the same page about the German anti-air prototypes being total misidentifications or ‘test-mules’ in the archives.
As for the Ho-Ri, that is exactly the distinction I’m making,
Your Point is Correct, The real 105mm gun was fully built, and the sloped Ho-Ri I only ever progressed to a physical wooden mockup
The Game Version is Fake, Because the game takes that sloped wooden mockup layout and treats it as a fully combat-ready steel vehicle complete with a heavily inflated armor profile, impossible weight, and a fantasy engine,it is historically fake.
Ultimately, that is exactly why Gaijin is removing it. A real blueprint and a real gun existed, but the sloped combat vehicle we drive in-game is a total fiction.
Also,
Appreciate you dropping the actual forum source text!
What if we replaced its armor with wooden armor like in the real life wooden mockup 😹
And replace its engine with an other existed engines?
It’s not a variation of the Ho-Ri I and instead an entirely different design with the entire crew in the superstructure, which was needed because the sloped front didn’t leave any room for the driver. It’s even more likely that this was an initial design for the Ho-Ri made before the Ho-Ri I/II that were based more directly on the Chi-Ri chassis.
The game version itself is a misinterpretation mixing up the mockup and Ho-Ri I design into a combined vehicle that just doesn’t work, for example the front hatches for the driver in the hull, because they were never actually intended on the design, are too small.
This sketch of the sloped Ho-Ri is not actually real, and was instead made by Gaijins own consultant at the time.Real drawings by Tomio Hara
All of this is best explained in the “Clearing the Air: The Ho-Ri, Fact vs. Fiction” section of the suggestion.
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If history serves right for other removed vehicles:
- Gaijin ‘removes’ vehicles (stops new users from obtaining said vehicles)
- Gaijin waits until their use dies down a bit (people that have them moving on to other things, other games, etc)
- Gaijin then brings out some good buffs for said removed vehicle
I look forward to what buffs Gaijin has in store for the Proto and Prod.
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Can’t, people voted no on correcting APHE because content creators lied to them with disinformation & they believed it.
The Coelian was only buffed because it had the wrong guns for years.
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