an empty jet/helicopter can easily defeat a helicopter at any br
I was talking from a SAM point of view.
I don’t think the person who I was quoting originally talked about SAM only, next time please specify
wow, sorry, I really mixed something up there. if we’re talking f&f, it’s top tier, and spaa radars detect the helicopter as soon as it pops out. this gives the spaa about 2 seconds to actually move the turret into the direction of the helicopter (in this case it is the german tiger heli and israeli helis), somewhere around 5 seconds to kill (missile speed above 1kmps). so in total the f&f heli has 7 seconds to locate, lock, launch and descend back. I think this makes the heli f&f playstyle counterable, or at the very least totally ineffecient
edit: switched fire to kill
Helicopters now have access to ground map overlay and can set a “pointer” to where they think or know (scouting, pings, etc.) enemy vehicle is. This helps with their orientation as they’re going to know where exactly to look before they even show themselves to AAs.
Ammo resupply is also heavily in favor of helicopters, as Ace crews can reload and repair in 10 seconds as many times as you want. AAs on the other hand get only their stock ammo + the same amount in ammo boxes. In order to get more you’re forced to go to a cap point, which is suicide for such a vehicle.
Some helicopters at lower tiers are also broken, as AAs at their BR simply can’t touch them in their effective range.
ultimately a redundant feature for players with poor map knowledge, good helicopter pilots could already use the map to know where the enemy is.
going back to the helipad takes time. going from the helipad to some mountain spot also takes a lot of time. and if you stay close, well the SPAA won’t need time to find you and launch a missile, especially if they got a vendetta.
“also” broken? anyway. I can’t say anything about that, as far as it concerns me, if an empty jet/heli can take it out easily, it is not broken.
edit: typo
It’s quite helpful for not-so experienced players.
Closer you are to the helipad, further away you’re from the battlefield.
Yes it is from the SPAA standpoint.
I don’t see the point
This minimizes travel time and increases your spam potential.
If your helipad is close to a mountain spot you could easily toss two dozen missiles in a minute.
you lose the element of surprise or whatever if you do that. to clarify: are you saying only f&f helicopters are op?
You always have the element of surprise against tanks and again, against AAs you have no worries as you can sling off your FnFs much faster than he can shoot you down.
They are pretty OP to ground forces, yes.
if it’s just about f&f, sure. I only watch a lot of replays (since I don’t have helicopters with them) and I can see how there is a lot of room for skillful play, yet it is not exactly needed or used in that space yet
with that being said
I think things will be better if you specify f&f helicopters next time. the majority of 'copters don’t have f&f
They require skill but FnFs took a lot of it away.
This kind of goes for all helicopters as even SACLOS ones can “trade” missiles with an AA and they generally have a much easier time rearming.
But FnF ones are the main problem here.
ironically, I have failed to specify f&f helicopters in that post. I meant that people can play f&f helicopters skillfully, but they choose not to because they can make some kills just fine without it
Of course, many people are more than fine with just mindlessly slinging IR ordnance and actually getting something out of it.
FnF helicopters, other than maybe the Israeli AH-60, are not that powerful, as FnF missiles are still unreliable.
They are only really good at dealing with SPAA, although things like Pantsirs can still shoot them down, hide behind cover, and can even tank some of them.
Any map that has dense foliage or buildings often can render them completely useless, as tanks can simply get into cover without even knowing they’re even being fired upon, let alone have them hit the correct spot.
Can you name some?
F&F helicopters have a pretty low skill floor and skill ceiling, as you can only control them so much as when they launch.
Comparing with other helicopters, like ones with hellfires equiped, they have a much higher skill floor and skill ceiling, as they still have some control over how they guide in. You may want to stop using IRST auto-tracking when the intended target is near another vehicle, etc. If you’re even more skilled with them, you can lob them over mountains and use IOG for a while until they are close enough to the enemy - effectively making them somewhat of a f&f missile. However, this only works on some occasions, and is very difficult to do correctly. Not only that, most laser-guided missiles found on top tier helicopters are often slow and unmaneuverable, with little to no effective range. The only exception to this are the Mokopas found on the Rooivalk, the AKD-9 (trades damage and range for maneuverability) found on the Z-9WA, Z-19, and Z-10, and the AKD-10 (trades speed for maneuverability, damage, and 10km effective range).
Direct-fire ATGMs, like the Vikhirs, tend to have similar skill floor as the Hellfires, but have much higher skill ceiling due to their ability to go through foliage and smoke, and you do not have to rely on luck if the enemy so happends to pass them. You can even track them through smoke with the KA-52 using MTI radar mode.
This is why, to an average person, it makes sense that the AH-64D and Tiger UHT are at the same BR as the Ka-52, but does not really make sense when you consider their actual capabilities in competitive matches.
Ka-50s and Ka-52s in particular tend to be the hardest helicopters to play, and yet both are one of the best helicopters in-game - exceeding the capabilties of f&f and laser-guided helicopter platforms in most cases.
As for (top tier) helicopters being bad, they definitely aren’t as good as they once were, but they aren’t that great, especially when considering SPAA now get twice the number of missiles, the damage model changes, and the ever increasing air superiority provided by aircraft such as the Eurofighter Typhoon, and even things like the SU-34.
The ability to mark targets to automatically start firing upon them is a nice feature, but like @Славянский_Прострел said, experienced players already do this with other mechanics, like ‘attention to the map!’, drone pings, and yellow squadron markers. And this feature can also help inexperienced SPAA know where to look and expect helicopters (especially those who are coming from their helipads and straight into the battlefield).
yes, but there is skill in the types of tactics you can perform with them that are based around movement (for example the pop out-pop in method motorola talks about)
I think with just how effective the eurofighters and their equivalents are, gaijin should decompress top tier even further, without pulling helicopters into it
a gimmick that only picks up dead tanks
only the ka-52. i think ka-50 is a very unfortunate helicopter, it gets pulled into top tier matches all the time, and it is not fit for them (optics, lack of air to air missiles, etc)
edit: I forgot to mention how cheap heli v heli combat is if the attacker has f&f. i don’t know why gaijin made every f&f untraceable by MAW, but it basically simplifies the attacker’s side to “get in range of 5km, launch a few, bam”
In my opinion that’s the only thing keeping them in check.
This is highly map dependent.
Let’s start with starter helis with ATGMs. They’ll usually have 3km+ range and basic SPAAGs can’t really touch them unless they are hard hovering, but that’s kind of a skill issue.
Only SPAAGs that can touch ATGMs helicopters are M247 and PGZ with AHEAD ammo, others are nuisance at best.
Then at 9.7 you’ll have Mi-24s that have access to Shturms which will fight basic IR slingers that have hard time locking stuff at 3km, let alone 4km+.
I’ve recently used Type 93 that has optical tracking and I don’t remember locking anything beyond 3.8km. I’ve also seen helicopters dodging IRs which was kind of funny to see.
In my opinion Kamovs are a mixed bag that entirely depend on if enemies have AAs on the map or not.
Top tier AAs can shut them down to the point of them not being able to engage anything, which can’t be said for FnF ones.
But on the other hand, when there’s no AAs around Kamovs tend to do better as their missiles are faster and can be guided after launch.