They also have nowhere near as much armour as the jagdpanzer. Recently I have been playing the M4 Sherman at 3.7 and have no problem dispatching them by using the stabiliser in CC1 and easily OHKOing them.
I don’t have issues fighting them either.
However.
I’ve seen this posted in the fox thread (Fox is still overpowered - #768 by UniqueScorpions):
So, I raise a conversation I had a few games past:
Although I feel it’s more APHE than PzIV in this particular case.
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I find the Tiger a bit preferable to the Panther.
The hull and the turret are more responsive, it feels like it has more power at the drive wheel compared to the Panther in that it turns and accelerates faster. The reliable lethality of the 88mm makes me a lot more confident in engaging multiple targets, I find the Panther’s L/70 to be a bit anemic, as if I’m shootimg scalples not bombs. Additionally, due to weakspots people aim for, lately it seema like every shot to panther turret kills 3 crew and disables the turret ring which puts you out of the fight for a while, again the Tiger also feels more functional when missing crew.
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- Overall armor protection (far less vulnerable from side angles)
- Better turret front armor (better hull down)
- Not the worst reverse speed in the world
- Better post-pen damage with a gun that can practically penetrate the same targets
The Panthers main strenght is fighting at range with strong frontal armor and high velocity, high penetrating gun.
However the Tiger is similiar very strong at range, because at range it will also stop nearly everything while presenting a very small target. It’s much easier for an IS-2 to kill a Panther from 500-1000m then a Tiger.
I think the German armour overall in WW2 lends itself to sitting and sniping and not attacking. Probably why Germany does so badly in terms of win rate in so called WW2 eras. The modern Artillery spam probably doesn’t help one bit as German heavies can be one shot killed from the front as well as the sides now.Even less reason to bother moving.
I agree conditionally,
I feel confident in asserting that WW2 German vehicles come with a certain amount of acclaim that I don’t feel other nations recieve outside the player base.
With this in mind It seems to me that players expect their tanks and planes to do all the work. Hence the propensity to drive a few meters and camp just beyond their own spawn point after being destroyed trying to capture or defend a capture point.
It seems to me that good players that understand the basics of how war thunder should be played in general can successfully play at all ranges, I personally enjoy brawling with the Tiger H1/E and the Premium Porsche Tiger, but I also enjoy knowing that I can return accurate and deadly fire out to 1200m, further if I have time to range it.
I would argue that the best and worst players in the game gravitate to tanks like the Tiger II, it’s dangerous in the hands of an idiot and devastating with a skilled user. This is true for all tanks however my take is that German vehicles tend to be more specialised than the Russian or Allied vehicles. As a result it’s harder to apply a general approach to ground RB and have success.
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good armor when angling + overpressure aphe + strong turret armor
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Nooo, you cant tell tiger players to angle! xD
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Totally agree with that mate ,well said.
Have you ever played any of them lol. Aside from some panther lacking in turret traverse (only some, once again), they literally don’t loose anything to the Firefly. Armor, APHE, decent (albeit not great) mobility, trolly armor on the weak spots…
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And now let’s have this discussion when it comes to most minor nations vehicles at this br range. Like the Chart 25t, which is for some reason at 8.0, facing these exact vehicles
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We are talking about a Pz IV at the same BR as the Firefly, which is completely ridiculous.
At 4.7 the Pz IV has no armor or any stats that would allow to make use of the armament, before the enemy can target and destroy it.
A Firefly can at least very easily penetrate the armor of a T-34, Sherman or KV and has at least some channce of firing first.
In which scenario would the Pz IV accomplish anything that any other vehicle wouldn’t be able to do as well?
I rather take a M24 or a Crusader Mk III into 5.7 before I take a Pz IV.
Not to mention the Puma has much more to offer at higher BR then the Pz IV.
Playing the Pz IV the same way at 5.7 as at 3.7 works by running into bad players, who don’t use their superior vehicles.
It’s the same deal with aircraft. Sure I can take 3.0 Bf 109 and get kills against 5.7-6.0 planes, in ground battles. That doesn’t mean that’s it’s viable or that the Bf 109 is undertiered.
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It was before the M109 or 2s1 came in.Now that frontal armour at distance means nothing. I think that is the OPs issue in some ways.The old days of long range trade offs are over as soon as the late cold war items rock up. The fun times of the long distance gunfight are over and another avenue of pleasure closed off by the perpetually shitting snail.
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You still need to hit the turret, at range it’s much safer to fight a M109, while at close range it has no problem making that shot.
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A panzer IV can do the exact same as well. Weak spots are a bit different.
The firefly also only shots Sabot, which has a terrible post pen damage. The panzer IV does much better in this aspect with a very potent HE filler.
The mobility of the panzer is also, if I am correct, quite a bit better than that of the Sherman chassis.
The armor of the Sherman is not significantly better than that of the panzer either.
You really dont that is the whole issue.You can hit them on that front plate ,one shot in a artillery piece that isn’t even modded.I did it six times in my first game in Finland with the 2S1 hiding behind a rock in a green tank on white background. Got them all on the nose ,same trick six times.Now tell me I would have done that in a Panther or any other WW2 monster from 6BR.
Must of been as irritating as F*** for the poor guys playing the Panthers thinking they were rolling out in a tank that offered them some kind of protection their own BR.
Not much of game when those guys are losing out to a clod like me in a tank I never played before.Like the worse kind of CAS overkill,like that wasn’t bad enough.
Personally I have no heart to play a WW2 game riddled with that shit which is a shame because 6BR was an old fave. Shame for Gaijin too because I stopped with premium and BP. Each to their own I guess
Much more responsive than the Panther, side armor isn’t extremely vulnerable, and the 8.8 just hits much harder IMO. If there was a panther with the short 8.8 I’d love it.
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I am assuming heat. If you have a replay of HE doing it, i would like to see it. I have yet to die in any decently armored tank by a HE round hitting the ufp.
HE needs to have its explosion hit armor that is less than the tnt pen, which is like 63mm. I would assume something is bugged if the explosion is hitting a panther’s ufp and penning.
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While I feel your pain on this one, I have to point out that many WWII vehicles (especially Russian) were used long after WWII was over. (Some of them are actually still in service, one way or another, today!) Just because you’re in a WWII tank, doesn’t mean you’re fighting in WWII, unless you’re in an event that is supposed to be WWII.
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A Pz IV has 14°/s turret traverse while being one of the least mobile and weakly armored tanks.
The armor is sufficent for 3.7 but useless at 4.7.
There’s a reason the Jagdpanzer IV and Jagdpanzer 38(t) are 4.3. It’s because they can at least survive getting shot.
If you get shot in the Pz IV, you’re dead.
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