A Pz IV has 14°/s turret traverse while being one of the least mobile and weakly armored tanks.
The armor is sufficent for 3.7 but useless at 4.7.
There’s a reason the Jagdpanzer IV and Jagdpanzer 38(t) are 4.3. It’s because they can at least survive getting shot.
If you get shot in the Pz IV, you’re dead.
1 Like
Fun fact, the Jpz IV is missing 20mm of frontal armor because we got a crappy early prototype instead of a production model
All my HE kills generally rely on hitting the front or side of the turret and I assume the explosion impacts the hull roof leading to destruction of the vehicle. On tanks like the T-54, I’ve noticed that they’re quite resistant to HE to the sides and rear as the turret is effectively as wide as the hull (and fighting compartment) which i belive to be protecting the crew. I’m still able to disable the engine from hitting the turret rear, generally the frontal hull roof is vulnerable.
Tigers and Panthers have issues with more of the fighting compartment having a roof that is damaged from hits to the turret.
Additionally, any tank with raised cuppolas I’ve noticed to be susceptible as the Roof lf the turret is now vulnerable. Many tanks have thin plates at extreme angles that can be probed for weakness but chance of a ricochet is high.
Any tank with sponsons (lets just say the fighting compartment extends over the tracks, not just a sheet cover) is vulnerable also.
Tiger, Tiger II, Panther and Tank Destroyer variant all have thin armour above the tracks which is a harder but otherwise feasible shot.
For the toughest tanks you can still shoot underneath and explode up through the floor
1 Like
Correct. With HE vs armored tanks, you basically try to pen the roof of the hull or turret.
This is why i do not believe his statement that you can kill a pather/tiger by hitting center mass on the ufp.
2 Likes
You are talking 155mm Artlley shell ,why would it not destroy an old WW2 tank? How is it that so many tanks are wiped by artillery?
I did it six times in a row with a 2s1 in my first game .As the panthers rolled down the hill in Finalnd I just sniped them head on .Fun for me ,no fun for them.Whether I still have the reply I dont know as I am on X Box and its a nightmare to transfers a games worth of data.
I didnt think it was any kind of secret that HE from Artllery at 6BR will one shot a WW2 heavy front on.Not in any way.Now it seems if we dont return HE we have to take 3 or 4 shots with APHE as well.
If that were not the case I doubt I would even care.I can only comment on what I see.All of my games are at what might be called WW2 level except a few as Israel. 13500 plus games at 6BR and below so I have a vague idea of what I am talking about.I guess anybody can find my replays at any time.
1 Like
I think the confusion stems from what’s defined as “frontally”
Will the M109G one-shot a tiger 2 on UFP?
Nah.
But, aim for the turret and…
Same thing with the IS-2:
I can’t take the M109G into test drive (20K RP left and I can) and it’d give me ISes probably anyway,
However, I did see this kind of behaviour in Spookston’s videos plenty of times to trust the damage analyser.
Example spookston video:
2 Likes
I just hit Panthers in the game.Finland .Oh they were rolling down a slope but each was a shot right on the front sloping armour. First game unmodded. I have also been taken out with one many times with one shot.I cant be the only one. Do any of you main WW2 6BR ?
I think he is claiming that you can hit center mass ufp on a tiger 2 and kill it.
Which i find very hard to believe since i can shoot a tiger in the back of the turret with HE and only kill the engine.
2 Likes
I didnt mention a Tiger 2 it was the Panther and Tiger One
as a side note An IKV 103(4Br) has 400mm of pen and a Jagdtiger 200mm of front armour .Do the maths there.
Panther should be fine. Tiger might get killed assuming it hits just above the transmission.
We are talking about HE. Not sure why you are now bringing up heatfs
1 Like
I just took about ten recordings of me one shotting later Russian tanks on the range with the M109 USA from the starting point. All of them.Same with Italy.
The Russian 122mm Is one shot killing the Panther with manlet shots regular from distance.
On the odd occasion front plate.If the Tanks is on an incline towards you then I imagine that would be why I got such a high kill rate. Try it for your self.This is game destroying for a WW2 player wanting to enjoy WW2 tanks doing what they did.
Sure there are a mix of non pen due to Gaijin inconsistency but I even took the J-Tiger out with one shot and that thing is miles away.Try it for yourself,I’m not making it up .It would be a good shot in a WW2 vehicle but a likely one with 60s Arty.
If can be bothered I’ll upload the video but I have done nothing you cant do on the test range.
Its not and nothing stops you getting a M109 and seeing for your self how it decimates the Panther at 6Br in a way it never used to get owned in its own BR.Sure anybody body can get hit by a big round now and ten and you have to suck it up but not with the game wrecking regularity we have now with 80s arty.
When i get the chance, i will go and hit a panther in the ufp and see if it pens.
Just play HE on the post war Artillery hitting German WW2 ,try it all ways.Its there for everybody. Its no secret or figment of my imagination.See how many one shots you get against much more modern Russian tanks on the test range.
I can take them for a spin. Honestly, I hardly touch them since i dont like playing them. Just doesnt fit my prefered playstyle.
No disrespect ,then why are you arguing with me if you dont know? : )
From my experience on both the recieving and giving end of HE slingers, i have yet see what you are claiming.
All hits that killed where from the shell hitting an area that allowed for the explosion to go through the roof armor. I have never had an HE shell hit the ufp of my panther and kill me.
When i say hardly, it is comparative. I probably still have a couple hundred games in them.
I just think the whole idea of using tanks like the Panther or Tiger or even Pershing that rely on armour give the player confidence and that was how it was not so long ago.
You weren’t indestructible and you had to watch out for things like the Russian 152 but they were rare and had to line up a good shot. M109 is now in nearly every line up and spamming the game to death at 6BR and the armour concept is somewhat dead now.
Armor meta is not as strong as it was. But it is far from dead.
I do agree it was kind of dumb to pull an Oprah and give everyone a m109.
1 Like
An HE to the body of a Panther or Tiger isn’t going to kill it. Ever.
Even hits to the side and rear of the turret are a 50/50 shot.
Only way a 155mm HE is killing a Tiger is;
If it hits the roof over the mantlet, causing overpressure.
Hits the mantlet, causing OP over the driver’s hatch.
Directly under the tank, causing OP directly under the hull.
If HE actually worked like it should a direct hit to the main body would be fatal for basically every single tank in the game. Shame it doesn’t, really.
1 Like