Well Germany cannot really get what they didn’t buy, and they haven’t really gotten anything in Game they did not own.
And the issue of aircraft just not coming with its peers, but much later is not connected to how and when Germany bought or operated these planes IRL.
I mean yeah I get that the IRL adoption date doesn’t matter (the technology does), but how much of the German jet tree was genuinely needed rather than filling in stuff that wasn’t needed? Because getting some copy-paste jets later on when they weren’t really needed isn’t an issue in itself (the real issue is that more interesting and/or more domestic planes weren’t coming, even if they get added late).
Like all the Top-Tier jets (and Jets that once were top tier).
The MiGs (Lim-5P, 19, 21bis, 23MF, 23MLA, 29, 29G); the Phantoms (F-4F (e) and regular F-4F); the Sabres (CL-13 Mk.5 and Mk.6).
All of them were Top-Tier jets once, and all of them came to Germany way way later than to US or USSR. So Germany was never really competitive in Top-Tier Air, because they almost always got their Top-Tier later than everyone else, and sometimes even at the same time as others got their better Top Tier:
- MiG-21bis-SAU same update as the MiG-23MLD
- F-4F same update as MiG-23M and 3 updates after the MiG-21bis
Yes, some of them could be considered “filler” now, like the Lim-5P that came 6.5 years after the MiG-17, but they certainly would not have been filler if they were added earlier, together with its peers.
As for domestic aircraft: Those all came in the same update as other nations got them. But due to the simple matter, that there are 4 domestic vehicles in the post-WW2 jets (3 of them being a Tornado and 1 Alpha Jet) out of 30 jets, it really does not make a difference.
1 Like
Did I say I disagree with him? Careful where you throw those stones…
Planes are added during major updates, not days.
So unfinished vehicles have to wait until the next major update they’re finished between in order to be added.
Thus it’s disingenuous to talk in days when it should be updates beyond the next major update, for which many are removed.
To address the specific vehicles though.
Su-22UM3K is a different jet that’s rather superior to the Su-22M3.
LIM-5P is just a flat out superior jet over the Mig-17, it should be 0.3 higher TBH but that BR is compressed.
Mig-23BN is not a Mig-27M.
And so on and so forth.
Next major update should be considered “same time”, as that means the vehicle was not quite finished for the previous update, but finished shortly after.
Of the extremely few aircraft that were same time different update, they weren’t finished in time for the previous update, AKA not in a playable state.
It takes months to years to develop vehicles.
3 Likes
Imho the answer is obvious:
Because they are happy to take money from players which enjoy playing Germany, but gaijin is not really interested to keep them competitive.
Your post is actually the equivalent of US players complaining about missing competitiveness of the top tier tanks - the only difference is that US teams have abysmal low WRs in top tier Ground RB and Air RB - whilst Germany has at least in top tier Ground RB decent WRs.
I recommend to use this tool:
…to analyze WRs in Air RB and Ground RB of the big 3 - and then check the WR of UK, China and France and you can come to your own conclusions.
If you want to change something you have to vote with your wallet.
I replied recently to a similar thread:
Major updates should come with all the vehicles necessary for a competitive field, they knew this day was coming 10 years ago, this gap in the German aviation tree was obvious to everyone forever, they had plenty of time to research and prepare an alternative, a 3rd gen Phantom isn’t that.
1 Like
Ok, let me rephrase:
| Plane | Updates later | Original Plane |
|---|---|---|
| MiG-29G | 1 | after the SMT |
| MiG-19S | 1 | after the MiG-19PT |
| MiG-29 | 1 | after the MiG-29 |
| Su-22UM3K | 1 | after the Su-22M3 |
| MiG-23MLA | 2 | after the MiG-23ML |
| MiG-23MF | 3 | after the MiG-23M (and as an event vehicle) |
| CL-13 Mk.5 | 2 | after the F-86F-2 or at least 3 after the F-86A-5 |
| Mig-21bis-SAU | 5 | after the Mig-21bis |
| F-86K | 5 | after the French one and 4 after the Italian one |
| Su-22M4 | 5 | after the Su-17M4 |
| Mig-23BN | 5 | after the MiG-27M |
| MiG-15bis | 7+ | after the MiG-15bis |
| F-4F | 6 | after the F-4E |
| F-4F early | 8 | after the F-4C or 5 after the F-4E |
| G.91 R/3 | 11 | after the G.91 R/1 or 2 after the G.91 R/4 |
| CL-13 Mk.6 | 26 | after the F-86F-2 |
| IL-28 | 29 | after the IL-28 |
| Lim-5P | 32 | after the MiG-17 |
No it shouldn’t. They always seem to have the others ready when only the German one is not.
Italy, China, Israel all got their F-16s the same time the US got theirs.
UK got their Gripen the same time, Japan and Israel their F-15s the same time, China the Su-27 the same time, but not Germany. Germany does not get their Top-Tier at the same time.
Tomato, Tomato: same or similar, as I stated before. They might not be 100% the same vehicles, but they are of the same type and very, very similar.
3 Likes
Should doesn’t mean they will. That statement is also for you @DiamondCraftLP
For a 5 - 18 month vehicle project, having a hiccup during the last month of dev means it can miss that major update and be scheduled for the future one.
That’s why I say 2+ updates after.
Cause 1 update can mean it was finished the day after the previous update went gold or up to the final week before release of the next major update.
However, 2 updates later is a minimum of the time between update went gold for 1.1 and after update went gold for 1.2. [Numbers are a visual guide].
So Mig-23MLA for example took 1 major update + unknown amount of days to finish as shown with @DiamondCraftLP 's updated table.
I appreciate the change, by the way. Thank you, Diamond.
It is still strange that it apparently only happens to the German Aircraft.
And with the new Top-Tiers essentially being copy-paste of each other it is even stranger that they couldn’t finish 1 more copy on time.
1 Like
Oh, it happened with many more.
F-16AJ, F-4J, Yak-141, Mirage 2000C, and so on.
I haven’t cataloged every aircraft that came 1, 2, or more updates after their competition.
Just seems they are working way too close to a deadline for literally no reason, you can have things planned way in advance, the fact updates are being promoted and pushed out before vehicles are even completed yet is entirely unnecessary when you can allow yourself a buffer.
And when a vehicle is delayed you don’t have to delay it even further for a next update, the timespan listed in the original post is way beyond reason.
No, that’s not what it means at all.
There is a buffer as well, which further disproves your claim.
if that was the issue, then there wouldnt have been an average of 528 days between germany getting their share of vehicles because, fun fact, they would never have gotten them!
If there was a buffer we would not end up with updates missing vehicles.
1 Like
Different context from current days.
At the time, Gaijin had not considered implementing East and West German vehicles in the game, but the CL-13A and German MiG-15bis were implemented because the top tier aircrafts such as Me 163 and Me 262 A-1a vehicles had no chance against the Sabres and MiGs.
For the same reason, the F-86F-30 was implemented in Japan.
G.91R/3 wasn’t implemented until 2018 because top tier games in Germany was really strong at that time and CL-13A ruined almost everythings. If they implemented R/3 in 2018 or 2017, it would be beyond of god tier.
The CL-13B Mk. 6 is by absolutely not equivalent to the F-2 Sabre lmao.
Their counterpart was G.91YS, J32B, Shenyang F-5, Hunter FGA.9, F3H, F-100A.
All of them were implemented after AAM+supersonic patches.
We had 1953 hardcap and no AAMs, supersonics, afterburning jets when MiG-17 was implemented in the game.
1 Like
is straight up superior, due to the amount of countermeasures it should be in 11.0 air rb since there it is almost identical to the m4.
funnily we still dont have any mig 17F in the russian TT
who could have thought?
And that is exactly my point. US and USSR both got Korea Jets back in the closed Beta, instead of just the early post WW2 jets these countries produced, which were equivalent to the Me262s. So German Top-Tier, as you said yourself, had no chance.
So Germany got it the same Update the first Phantom and MiG-21s came.
And Germany got their Phantoms and MiG-21s way later, again.
And that warrants a 32 update delay?
It is also not supersonic and doesn’t carry AAMs. It is at best a slightly upgraded MiG-17.
Even China got their J-4 and F-5 14 updates before Germany got their Lim-5P. That was the update China was introduced.
The Russian Squadron Su-22M3 should be able to carry CM-pods, same ones as the UM3K has, but someone is not adding them. There are a lot of pictures of it with them attached.
The Lim-5P is a 17PF.
You won’t get them anyways anymore, because everyone is just crying for the next modern Top-Tier Jets. It would just act as filler, same as the Lim-5P did when it was added.
Also reminds me of the helicopters, the US and USSR got helicopters an update before Germany did, which created a ridiculous situation with US + USSR on the same team spamming helis and Germany on their own having nothing.
I wish germany would get the treatment they get in their naval in air