Custom ammo belts (Air/Ground)

[KillaKiwi]

[Would you like to see this in-game?]

• Yes
• No

This was probably suggested before in the old forum. Not sure what happened to it but I didn’t find anything on the new forum.

The idea is simple. Just how we can create custom-loadouts for aircraft armament, let players choose their own ammo belts after unlocking the ammo or ammo belts.

I was previously against this feature, but I was also against smoke shells and nothing bad came out of these.

Depending on the mission or individual playstyle, you want to have a ammo belts suited for the situation, but relying on the Developer to do so has turned out not to be ideal.

In general it will be a great addition to the game since not only can you test the effectivness of different rounds against live targets but it also makes it easier to find and test issues with ammunition that is under- or overperforming.

Several aircraft shells aren’t actualy implemented and with guns that have a big selection of different shells implementing them into a selection of belts would be difficult.

An example would be the German MG 151/20.
It has an Inc-T shell but it’s missing an Inc round without tracer.
By implementing custom belts and the Inc round w/o tracer, players can put incendiary rounds into their custom “stealth” belt instead of having to use APHE and API.

Gaijin also snuck AP rounds into the explosive belts of certain SPAA vehicle.
For vehicles like the AMX-13 DCA 40 this means that 25% of the shells have a chance of being completely ineffective against aircraft at times, just passing through the airframe.

Instead of tackling such issues with individual vehicles, the issue resolves itself by allowing players to use their own belts.

[Vianochka]

I suggested this back in like 2015 and response was that belts are used for soft balancing certain cannons. For example germans has mine shells…

[KillaKiwi]

Well, that would just be a failing on the developers part to accurately represent certain shells.

It also can’t cause any balance issues since gun and plane performance determines the efficency of the vehicle and thus the BR.

Since Italian and Japanse 12.7mm explosive rounds were buffed to the extreme, we saw them having their BRs increased. But even when you allow players to just load 12.7mm HE rounds, there’s a limit in the planes performance to compete.

We also see constant changes to the performance of shells. Since realShatter these 12.7mm HE rounds don’t explode like miniature 20mm nukes anymore, which used to spray fragments over the whole plane, knocking out pilots just from the fragments.

If players chose one specific type of ammo over the others, it’s most likely a sign that something is not right. 20mm Mineshells were (in RL) never some sort of magical shell that turns every plane into scrap.
People just like to go completely bonkers about them carrying more HE, completely disregarding that German fighters only carried 40-60% Mineshells at a time unless it was for attacking bombers from underneath.

So the balance argument doesn’t hold.

[TotemicCash2273]

Honestly I think it could be a neat thing, but I would like to see this with tanks, I want full tracer belts for my Abrams or if they introduce SLAP rounds those.

[Ghostmaxi]

Thank you for making this suggestion, i would have done it now.
It could be implemented just like is allready made with the custom ordanance, where instead of the ordanance you can pick and choose the rounds.

Also while back in the days Belts were based on Historic belts, those times are long gone, belts are changed for ballancing (The Ho 229 H-Pzgr belt which is 50% not H-Pzgr, while such were officially used only clean (tho here is a picture of a Hs 129 B-2 which has Pzsprgr. L’Spur mixed in, in the spoler. You can identify the H-Pzgr (Apcr) with the white aluminium tip and the Pzsprgr. L’Spur is colored black with a yellow band around the shoulders.)

Spoiler

And my personal view on the german belts especially, they are pretty much all blowted with Minenshells, and the only Armored Targets belt (which should be a mere Ground Targets belt) is only the weaker penetrating Aphe, while a Armored Targets belt with more Ap-I would be nice.

In this Spoiler, the custom ordanance which is one way to make custom belts, is visible.

Spoiler

So i am all for Custom Belts, with them, you can make more belts, reflecting your playstyle.

[KillaKiwi]

@Ghostmaxi

Also while back in the days Belts were based on Historic belts, those times are long gone, belts are changed for ballancing (The Ho 229 H-Pzgr belt which is 50% not H-Pzgr, while such were officially used only clean (tho here is a picture of a Hs 129 B-2 which has Pzsprgr. L’Spur mixed in, in the spoler. You can identify the H-Pzgr (Apcr) with the white aluminium tip and the Pzsprgr. L’Spur is colored black with a yellow band around the shoulders.)

I should mention that any balance issues can be addressed by Gaijin by removing ammunition from planes or limiting the use in belts.

The point of custom belts is simply to have independance from a pre-made selection as well as having the option to implement a wider selection of rounds into belts, like choosing between rounds with or without tracer.

[Ghostmaxi]

Of course, but i meant that just, as its not just Historic belts anymore.

[Coloured_breeze]

“Allowing the player to customize ammo belts” is a good idea, as many cannons don’t have the best ammo belts. If realized, everyone will have access to the most suitable ammo belt.

[GoneToTheAether]

+1

If someone wants to make a belt of just one shell, let them do so. We already can take just one shell type for tanks or ships when they have multiple options.

This was suggested by Smin1080p on the old forum, in fact.

[RaptorGenesis58]

SLAP would be good to see!

[Ghostmaxi]

One of my main wishes for 2024

[SinisterIsRandom]

All people will do is make complete HE belts. Or pure AP belts. The intention of custom ammo is welcoming however giving 100% full rights to make it is just going to lead to a sweaty level creep.

[Ghostmaxi]

Such is allready available for some guns.
I really see no problem here.

[KillaKiwi]

So?

If they are going to do that it’s either because they don’t know better or because the developer simply failed to implement shells properly.

At best it’s going to make some guns 25% better than just choosing an already existing belt.

However not only does this give players more freedom in using the ammo they want it also makes it much simpler to find and report ammo working not properly.

There is no downside in giving players the ability to customize belts.

[Gnza10091441]

Why do fighters can get such a variety of options, even full IAI (HE) belts, while my damn bomber turret has to settle for a measly AP rounds. Don’t try to tell me this is just for balancing…

If they allowed us to customize the belts, at least we would not have to wait for Gaijin to individually (and arbitrarily, it seems) decide what is best for each situtation.

[Sep8X8]

I think it’s a good idea as everyone has a different style of play. For example on the BMP-2 M it’s annoying that you can’t mount 2 9M133 and 2 9M133FM-3 rockets at the same time. I don’t know if this is realistically possible but I see no reason why not. For soft balancing you can say that you can only use a certain ammunition type X times, for example the APHE and SAPHEI on the German Mauser gun max. 2 times per ammunition belt.

[S3b5]

Yes for air belts but I don’t know about ground, at least not for vehicles that aren’t known to have dual-feed loading like the M3 Bradley and Marder 1 and stuff like that. For those it seems reasonable but for the rest I’m honestly not really sure.

[Ghostmaxi]

Pardon, but what exactly has dual (or multiple) feed to do with custom belts? Its not about 2 (or more) different belts quick change, but what is in 1 belt.

[S3b5]

I’m worried that if something like this goes through it’ll lead to full belts of one specific ammo, which isn’t a bad thing per say, but it might change the way things are balanced. And for fast firing guns, part of how they’re balanced is that one or two shells of not the thing you actually want. At least, from how I understand it.

[Ghostmaxi]

That is only a thing on ground but custom belts does not mean that they cant limit how much of specific rounds you can put into one belt, combined with a 4 round minimun and then limit on certain Guns HVAP to 2 rounds max for example.