Exactly. Why would I play sim if I might not even get enough to cover my spawn cost when I am doing good, if I die without landing. And potentially getting nothing for bailing out in enemy territory will just not end well.
The last thing sim needs is more economy nerfs.
and if you zomb and die you get nothing. Simpel as to solve the bot and zombie player problem. Looks like you dont want to fix the problem for good. Just cry. If your to scared to play then you should stop.
The problem has to be solved on its root or else it will come back and get worse. Again and Again.
The problem is that it is easy to get a positive balance in sim even if you lose. Not much effort is needed.
Hence it gets exploitet.
Hence its easy to send in bots as the task they need to perform is easy and fast to code. Fly from A to B and rince and repeat. For boters it matters not if you make +1sl or +1000sl, they dont play. They run the game 24/7. They can do it all day long. Brain dead players too.
So you need to make it teadius and complicated. From a programing pov and from a effort put in. Even from a mathematical pov. You callculate your SL/RP earinings in hour gain the more ceratin that number is and higher the more lucatrive it becomes. That number is to be unceratain.
Humans are like eletricity, will alwas go the way of less resistance. So are bots.
You can do the lazy thing and simply change rewards so much that it impossible to get a postive balance, bots simply will rest untill those changes are reverted. As it was done in the past and the exploiting will begin again. legit players are punsihed as they rest there play too.
The goal is to destroy the “explotation” in ways that is immersive and fits the narative of the game mode without punshing leggit players while making hell for expoliters boters and so forth.
I have to say that if your target is not to come back to base, land after you performd you task you are part of the problem.
Hence sim EC needs a rework. No more rng targts showing up like in a sand box. selection of missions, cleare goals, rewards and payouts on survival.
Tasks can be shared in platoons. Many missions. From cap to cas escort and so forth. Not just hop in bomb and go. Thats somthing for RB random matches.
It needs that in addition to many changes and expansions.
Ask your self, why to people bot and exploit sim ec?
Is it because its such a fun game mode?
Is it because they want the uniqe flavor and diffrences of the airplanes?
is it because its easyer to get SL/RP in sim then in any other game mode?
Because it is easy to write a script and gain rewards in a more passive way. It isn’t that the rewards are good (anymore), but rather that it is easy and safe to do so.
Your proposal only supports them, since people would just avoid combat if it meant losing the majority or all of their rewards.
Zombers suiciding into airfields is only something that comes up during event times. Zombers that are exploiting the current rewards system will land their plane.
Your suggestion doesn’t solve that problem…it just punishes players for playing PvP.
It’s easy to get a positive balance if you are playing PvE in a mostly empty lobby. If you are playing PvP without premium time and at higher tiers…you have to maintain a better than 2:1 kill to death ratio to break even.
Botters exploit the lobby creation system. They are not something that most players run into on a regular basis.
Zombers on the other hand are typically player controlled…anyone that has played during an event would know this because they get really upset when you kill them and will react in chat to it.
And there are multiple content creators that have created guides for how to use bomber to grind score during events.
Your suggestion punishes active players. We already have spawn costs that provide a disincentive for dying. It’s such a strong disincentive that most players will not stick around in games where they are dying too often to PvP actions.
My most common win condition at top tier isn’t from completing more objectives…it’s from killing every player in the enemy team until they decide to quit the game.
Your suggestion just lowers that bar even further where the only people that would be gaining anything are players that explicitly look for empty or unbalanced games. Or players that run to their airfield in the most OP thing in the bracket because someone started to win a dogfight.
My goal is to fight other players.
If you think the goal of the game is simply to complete a task and return to base… congratulations you share the exact same logic as the players that exploit the rewards system during events and try to enforce PvE-Only lobbies.
Under your system…declaring a truce and only completing objectives in order to safely return to base would be the best way to exploit the game mode.
If you wavoid combat you dont get any rewards. So you have to risk some to get some.
If I avoid PvP combat*
AI usually can’t kill me as well as a player can, so I would just avoid player interactions and attack AI.
How is punsihing palyers? One will surrive and get the reward. The other guy got shot down. So where is the problem?
your goal is cry, in no post i said you should not play. The reward system would be diffrent and if you come back home you get what you earnd and ho crashes or gets shot down gets maybe somthing? I dont get your point. At all. Bombing bases is playing teh agme, shoot other players is part of the game. Now it matters not if you get hoome back or not. So its even more easy to exploit. It matters what pilot skill you got. Just fly streight foward, spam all guns missles or whate ver untill you get a kill adn if you die or not what ever.
I would even go further and force players to taxi instead of let them spawn on the run way. Have multiple airlefds with diffrent layouts and punish monitarly the players abusing wrong take off and landing paths.
The simplicity of WT Sim is its greatest enemy.
The more complex and close the real life the harder it gets to be exploitet.
You are punishing players who do PvP, and try and play sim. You can’t punish zombers by reducing rewards for anyone who tries to actually play the game.
Is spending 17k SL to spawn, getting several kills, and then dying, really deserve 1/10th of the original rewards? and god forbid they crash in enemy territory.
Your suggestion makes it much more viable to base bomb in a fast aircraft since there is less risk of being shot down.
How is there less risk if guys like you fly around?
Why should you be rewarded for getting shot down?
When you punish players for dying, you force them to do low risk things. If PvP becomes high risk, people just wouldn’t do it. Why would I risk losing nearly all of my rewards in a dogfight, when I can just take a Ju-288 and bomb bases and stuff for 2 hours.
I should be rewarded for contributing to the game and doing useful actions. Whether I make it back to base shouldn’t be the deciding factor for how much I am rewarded.
This would be the highest risk job you could do bomb bases in enemy terrory so why would you do that if you want a save income? Are you telling me that after all those changes, flying a bomber alone in to enemy tretorry where enemy interceptors would be waiting because its to dangours to fly and camp enemy airiflds becomes safe? How?
Yes it should, not jsut how much SL you get but how much RP and crew skill points you get. It would put a incentive on actualy flying the whole mission not just 50% of it. Would even requiere some planing and put the whole journy in to advatoures expirance. Why just pay attention untill you drop the bomb and just bail?
Currently you will get 80% of your useful actions rewards even if you die during a sortie. Your suggestion is to reduce it to 10%.
This is a net negative for anyone that is doing PvP. If there is a fight over a capture point and there are multiple aircraft in it…even the people that are shot down trying to accomplish the objective will receive 80% of rewards.
Your idea scales really badly for PvP to the point that PvP would essentially force negative rewards for the majority of players. For instance…if there is a capture zone…and lets say there are 5 players fighting in it…4 enemy and 1 friendly. And lets assume that every player in the capture zone has 1 kill so far during their sortie because they were fighting over the capture zone.
If I come in and kill all 4 of the enemy…I just removed 90% of their rewards essentially by being the last guy to enter the zone. Even if me and my friendly stick around to capture the zone…or say my friendly is injured and has return to base because of damage…It is actually in my best interest to RTB because if I stick around to capture the zone and die in the process…I will lose 4 kills worth of rewards. My reward for killing 4 players and dying would be worth 40% of the reward of killing 1 player and immediately going back to base.
Even if I do stick around and cap the zone and capture it…if any of those 4 guys that I killed comes back and is successful at killing me before I rtb…I would still receive less reward than if I had came to the point…killed one guy and then immediately went back to base.
Basically this amounts to PvP players receiving far less rewards for actually playing the game. Meanwhile…all of the zombers in Ju-288s or Tu-14s will continue to maximize their potential rewards by playing in small lobbies and large maps.
Flying a bomber and bombing bases is the easiest and most handheld part of playing the game.
Spawn costs and the 20% reward buff from landing already provides an incentive for zombers to RTB.
To me this sounds like you want to structure the whole entire game around pressing the space bar and being able to RTB after that.
Holy moly…stop cooking.
This is War Thunder…it’s not discount Microsoft Flight Simulator.
Your whole suggestion is centered around punishing players…the fact that you would punish player rewards for…not flying the correct traffic pattern or using proper radio etiquette might just be the stupidest suggestion I’ve ever seen.
No it’s not.
I’ve already explained in detail how your rewards system that is based around landing the plane would be piss easy to exploit.
Do you realize what an incentive that harsh towards not dying would do?
It would just make it so everyone doesn’t do PvP since you’re more likely to die.
No. The multipliers between different modes are there to help offset the time it takes between engagements. Generally when moving from AB → RB → SB the time used for just flying around between doing something that gives score increases.
Instead of reducing the score earning for events flat 23% in Sim I would had first tried removing the vehicle Rank bonus entirely from SB (it does not make any sense in the first place) and removing the “Base Destroyed” score part from bombing airfields (so you would only get the “bases damaged” score from airfields).
Not only that. Those are the tourists that mostly come from RB to grind in SB so they can unlock stuff to play with in RB.
They are not active Sim-Players. The community that cares about Sim are basically the only ones being punished by this.
As many have pointed out, the real solutions for this would be as follows:
Case in point to spawn costs.
If i am flying my p-51 i will readily fly and engage with a points even if i got my 2 kills or other ways to max out score. Worst case i lose 2k sl so i can die 50 times with minimum useful actions reward without going broke. And getting a full 15 minutes reward gives me enough profit to have a buffer.
Contrast with my f4u-4b where i seriously consider just rtbing after getting 2 kills since the margin of 2 kills to 1 death is bloody tiny, and i can only die like 10 times with minimum actions score before having to leave the lobby as i ran out of sl.
1 full reward cyxle in the mustang is like almost 5 deaths. 1 full reward cycle in the f4u4b is 2 deaths with overflow into negative (18k max reward, 11k respawn cost vs like 13k max reward and 2.5k respawn cost)
It already heavily affects my choices.
I dont want to lose the ability to fly my mustang without worries as well.
Bombing a BASE and returning in SB mode takes about 10 minutes, and the payoff is about 1980 points (550 * 3 * 1.2). Bombing a combat zone in RB mode takes less than 5 minutes and yields about 924 points (550 * 1.4 * 1.2). If the score is taken into account, it is 1150 points (685 * 1.4 * 1.2). RB is more efficient than SB in terms of bombing BASE.
Easiest real soltuion would be to remove useful action and return normal rewards for everything, give 15% of score/rp/sl reward for base bombing and rest 85% when they land. All other actions keep 80/20 ratio they have now.
Which is not what the devs will do. It will only increase the wave of boosting crews coming back to milk the system, again.
Controlling most of the active games and harassing the player base that join their controlled environment. It will frustrate the community even more and cause more headaches for the GM team to manage the reports.