That account conveniently fails to mention the important role ground control radar plays in vectoring fighters to their targets, and the fact that mirage F1s and Mig-23ML’s had to be mindful of not only staying with the ground controlled area, but also staying away from surface to air missiles. And the south african F1 in that encounter was hit, but it wasn’t downed as it managed to fly back to base.
The SAAF’s conclusion after that encounter was that mirage F1’s with magic 1’s weren’t good enough against Mig-23MLs with R60MK’s, so i hardly see what that has got to do with the cyrano IV or the Matra 530f’s radar missile performance either. Personally i think the f1’s radar is performing more or less in line with the real thing, keeping in mind that it wasn’t particularly good for the time, while the 530f in underperforming a bit like all pulse radar missiles in warthunder (should be more resistant to chaff and more precise in final guidance).
Depending on the ruggedness of the terrain ground clutter can make finding and locking a moving target a lot more difficult, but it has a comparatively small effect against maintaining a lock unless line of sight is broken or the target flies below the range gate limit (less that 150 meters above ground); ground clutter is not a magical force field that negates all non pulse doppler radars from ever looking down…
mig-23ml is pretty mid, when I played it all i did was use it as a base bomber becuase it basically can’t do anything else. SPO10 is such abysmal rwr
mig-23mld is soooo much better.
F1C I also used it as more of a base bomber as well but mig-23 ml is better at base bombing cause only 2 incidenaries and then you got 2 r24rs for ez kills if theyre above 60m and its super fast so you can run way from anything and get to bombs so much quicker. I remember going mach 1.5 at 5km alt, bombing, maybe killing someone head on with an r24r then heading back to base for ez grinding.
f1c at least you can kill anyone with magic 2s so it was super noob friendly but it gets a pretty mid fm. At least compared to r-24r it can kill people below 60m.
f1ct is even better, cause it gets super modern rwr and even more bombs than the f1c 200. i wish that was the premium one cause of the rwr and extra bomb load for zombing.
Personally I think f1c all variants should be at 12.0 and the mig-23mld should also go to 12.0. 23ml to 11.7
I was posting real life proof about how this Mirage F1 didn’t succeed as 3rd gen fighter.
The missile Magic 2 with irrccm and the Flare/chaff countermeasures pod are an late 80 improvement add-on, such that mean this improved version should not be in Rank VII facing R-60M and Aim-9L.
Now we should mention the very important main reason about the OP. The RADAR. That particular Cyrano IV was not good IRL and look down Shot down was missed. Lacking Pulse Doppler features. All that together mean radar can’t detect low flight supersonic air targets and the SARH missiles are impossible to be guided. AND GUESS WHAT, this F1C like that are hammering everyone with such features implemented like a 4gen. Even better than F-16A such is not in 11.7 (the unfair BR set by Gaijin to help France research)
This current implemented in WT Cyrano IV radar for F1C perform even better than a Cyrano IV-M. I mean probably right now can’t intercept cruise missiles in WT maybe because the code doesn’t allow but talking from my personal experience facing F1C this Cyrano IV radar is able to search and track amazingly low air targets in supersonic from above 2000m. This F1C from Gaijin literally have the Air dominance in minus 12 BR. Totally unreal and OP not even close to the reality that aircraft performed
I have tested it and honestly having only SPO-15 RWR and slight better maneuverability doesn’t make a big difference in WT avionic. Maybe 11.7 but statistically doesn’t make any sense in WT implementation avionic. Maybe in a real simulator yes because the included avionic make a difference
I think using a fighter of any kind to only base bomb and then to complaining you’re not doing as well as other planes/ Players whom have deicide to learn how to use their aircrafts pro’s and cons to their advertence is a moot point.
IMO as you’re not using the plane to best of its abilities as stated in my last messages if you’re playing sim there is a expatiation of the user to have experience with the game and how to fly their aircraft, and if you resort to base bombing because you’re not doing as well as you think it should all this achieves is never learning how to get better and that reasonability lies on you and you alone!
Base bombing in the mig-23 is a perfectly valid thing to do considering how fast it is in sim, plus the 23 ml unlike the mld only gets spo 10 which makes it super hard to conceptualize how many people are on you when you’re dogfighting someone because there’s no range scales.
Makes it so that in sim you don’t know if you’re going into a 1v1 or 4v1.
It’s why I was talking about why mig-23mld is so much better, because it gets range scales for its rwr and secondary threat type, you can tell how many people are close by and plan accordingly. And by better I don’t mean for base bombing, I mean for PVP compared to standard 23ml.
Did you completely miss the part were I said “I think or IMO”
Also logic would dictate that if you don’t try to get better and stick to what you deem is easy that you won’t get better and will be at the mercury of the player whom decided to learn the pros and cons of their plane they are flying this whole argument of RWR is invalid as mentioned as there is pros and cons of every aircraft in game YOU need to learn how to deal with them and with time get better at the game mode with that aircraft!
I did eventually try to do to do pvp in the mig-23ml eventually, it’s why i got 300 kills in the thing after enough time.
It’s just that it has glaring weaknesses that its bigger brother doesn’t get/other fighters at the br.
Take the f-5e at the same br.
It gets a super modern rwr with threat id (kinda, depending on f-5 model it gets either pd/ai detection or full blown rwr suite) and it gets a super forgiving fm where if you do a sustained turn around 8-900 kph you can just out rate everything other than 23mld or j-7e. Sure it’s slower but the fact it has such great energy retention makes it an amazing light fighter. Plus the fact it’s super small makes it hard to spot in actual battles. You can just keep your radar off and sneak up on almost anything.
And the actual ergonomics of the 23 series is horrendous compared to its contemporaries, the cockpit has horrendous visibility with a bar running along the top of the cockpit that makes it super annoying to keep an eye on the target when dogfighting, you have to offset your pilot positioning which is annoying.
Compare that to stuff like the f-5e which gets amazing cockpit visibility and one even gets the f-16 radar at 11.3 with tws which is insane for situations awareness. TWS is such a massive thing for sim, insane how it gets it at such a low br.
Another example is how good the f1c is as it gets better cockpit visibility because again it doesn’t get that stupid bar along the top of the cockpit.
Ofc in sim you can just rip off the hood of the cockpit so that’s what I do if I flew the 23.
why bring real life service performance into this…
Iraqi F1s downed at least 2 F-14s. Ecuadorian F1s shot down several Peruvian Su-22s. South African F1s shot down at least 2 Mig-21s, among others.
A Greek F1 reportedly downed a Turkish RF-4E.
Real Life Performance does not equate to in game performance or BR. by that logic, several soviet aircraft should be terrible, since they have many times extremely poor K/D ratios, mostly due to their use in untrained, undermaintained air forces.
