I don’t yet own F-16A, so correct me if I’m wrong, but gunfighters are already falling out of the meta by 11.0, and Aim-9Ls are already near useless at 10.7.
Taken this into account, how can a dogfighter with Aim-9Ls that faces IRCM missile, powerful Fox-1s (both above and below its own BR), and Fox-3s be overpowered in any way shape or form?
Are they? You have to hold lock, they are easily chaffed and you only get two of them.
Also, the MIG-29 has much worst missiles then the AIM-9L, R60MKs are awful. You get 2 ERs, which are amazing but you still don’t have an amazing radar set for 12.7 and are at a BR that can(and will) face AMRAAMs.
Be consistent, either we lower all of these or keep them at 12.7
This isn’t hard. Even if you lose the lock the missile has a tendency to keep tracking.
It’s harder to chaff Aim-7Ms than it is to flare Aim-9Ls, and Aim-7Ms have like triple the effective range.
You can easily get 2 kills from 8km out and RTB. With Aim-9Ls you really need to be with 3km, and ideally 2km.
Aim-9Ls are not good. They are on the 11.3 Tornado which easily could go down in BR. Putting R-27ERs down in BR is a whole different beast than moving Aim-9Ls down to 12.3. R-27ER equipped vehicles (like the Su-27) can hold their own against Aim 120s better than Aim-9L-equipped vehicles.
I am being consistent. Identical flight models does not mean identical BRs. Are we going to move the F-16C down to 12.3 too?
You still have to hold the lock, and no they do not. They blow up out of the sky.
It is not, you notch and chaff, they will lose the lock. Now you have 4 AIM-9Ls and are at a higher BR then the F-16A(at 12.3 you literally only see downtiers)
Good luck out ranging a AMRAAM and holding lock with the mig-29 9.12s radar at a BR where many jets have tons of CMs
They are actually a really solid missile, and still 1000 times better then the R-60MK(it’s just a R-60 with all aspect) 2 ERs is hardly the game breaker your making them out to be. We already have things like the A-10 at lower BRs that are o ly kept in check by the bad pilots. Besides, if it’s that much of a issue then remove the ERs and give it the historical weapons it should already have.
You clearly aren’t, you don’t think the MIG-29 should be lowered because it has 2 good missiles and literally worst everything else compared to the F-16A, while saying that the F-16 ADF should be at a higher BR then the F-16A even though it’s clearly better then the MiG-29 9-12 according to your arguments. Not sure why your bringing the F-16C into this, I guess if you want to nerf its flight model, remove a bunch of weapons and CMs you could lower it?
That’s an overstatement. Any all aspect missile is useful at 10.7.
You know what both sides ultimately agree on? We need further decompression. That’s what this whole discussion, and most like it, all boil down to.
Not worth discussing with you anymore if you aren’t willing to concede that having access to 2 Aim-7Ms is better than two additional Aim-9Ls. Cry more.
I am still getting easy kills with the 13.0 Su-27 against Eurofighters and F-15s. I could not do that with Aim-9Ls.
What do you want to give it? R-73s? R-73s are way better than Aim-9Ls and Aim-9Ms.
What if we took away all the missiles that the F-16A has and just gave it two Aim 120s? Would that be balanced at 12.3? No.
The Mig-29 is fine where it is.
Dude, seriously? If you think 2 AIM-7s are worth moving the jet up then yeah, there really isn’t much point talking.
Sure you are buddy. Keep slinging those OP aim-7s.
If it gets R-73s then it should stay at 12.7 but if they take away the ER and give it the 27T it should go down.
Yeah, we are done here. If you don’t know how much better the 120 is then most every missile in game then I give up.
Keep clowning
Do you not understand how broken the R-27ER would be against everything at 12.3 and below?
So just ignored the removing of the 27ER if it’s an issue ehh?
Look, your a very insulting person and I really don’t want to continue this, I’m guessing some kind of hardcore US main that hates Russia or something, I don’t know.
If you honestly think 4 R-73s are OP at 12.7 but 4 R-60 are ok at then really we are done.
You are being deliberately obtuse.
Moving the Mig-29 down to 12.3 because the F-16A got moved down: bad idea because the R-27ER is way better than every missile at 12.3. Mig-29s would dominate everything.
Moving the Mig-29 down to 12.3, removing the R-27ER and adding R-73s: Absolutely not. The Aim-9L is not equivalent to the R-73. Aim-9L is far less maneuverable and easy to flare and R-73 is way better in both regards. Mig-29s, again, would dominate everything.
Keeping the Mig-29 at 12.7 with R-27ERs and adding R-73s- The Mig-29s competition at 12.7 is the F-16ADF, which has worse SARH missiles and atrocious IR missiles in comparison to the R-73. There is no need to add them for the Mig-29 to be balanced.
The Mig-29 has better SARH missiles and worse IR missiles than the F-16ADF as it stands, which is an acceptable middle-ground. Sure, the R-60MK missiles are mediocre at 12.7. The best solution in my mind (if you don’t like R-27ERs) is keeping the Mig-29 at 12.7, removing it’s R-27ERs, and adding R-73s. That way other 12.7s will have the advantage at range but the Mig-29 would have the advantage up close.
Its rly doesnt hard at all
“You disappoint me, the F16A is really bad. I don’t play in BR12.3 to do cannon fights. The AIM9L missiles are terrible. When you are in range to fire an AIM9L (less than 4k, otherwise zero chance of hitting), you are one second away from killing the opponent with the cannon. I find the F16A just good for bombing. Completely useless.”
It has? I swear i have slammed planes on frontal aspect 9L shots at like 500m with the f20
You’re probably misremembering, I don’t think it changed in recent times
Datamine values proof this
EDIT: just checked history and looks like it was changed on version 2.30.0.15 (20 Oct, 2023) here’s the last commit where it was 0.5s like the other missiles
must be that the missile just rammed it fast enough to kill it i think then, bc idk then
Just think the advantages of SARHs. Simply, two cases.
Case 1: 1v1 late game(not a common case btw). AIM-7s make BVR possible. ADF/MLU can throw a sparrow at 20km, and you should decide how to avoid being hit. Notch? You lose angles. Stick to ground? You lose height, and it depends on landform. Or just a simple fierce roll? You lose velocity, and you must SEE THE MSL. Finally you lose energy.
Some will say it’s not a significant advantage. Well, maybe.
Case 2: team fight. Without sparrows you must approach enemies to get kills, which makes you in a higher risk: information overload, being targeted easier, keep losing energy for continuous maneuver… As for ADF/MLUs, they’re usually safe enough to evade enemy radar-guided MSLs because of enough distance and reacting time. Much safer than earlier version, anyway.
I played Chinese F16A MLU, and sparrows contribute over half of my total kills. F16As won’t die easily with its great flying performance if pilots are cautious enough, but SARH-lessness makes this changed, because you’re going to give up something to kill enemies.
So, ADF/MLU shouldn’t be at same BR with earlier versions. If you think 0.4 BR difference is too much, i upvote decompression.
No he’s right, the Python 3 offers a significant advantage and capability that the regular F-16A lacks. It’s not the biggest advantage in the world, but it’s pretty nice and is what’s keeping it at 12.7 where it’s doing quite well for the most part. Ofc if they would finally triple its CM count, there would be yet another upside.
Alrighty thread, buckle up, education and Python 3 discussion time:
The Python 3 as many people know is a great missile, it features a great deal of range, acceleration, damage, and tracking capabilities. Notably, it features the same seeker as that found on the Aim-9L (you can see this in the games files). What sets it apart data-wise are three main things (in basic terms at least), the Motor, Fuze, and G-Load.
Firstly: It has a 40G G-Load, the Aim-9L does not.
HOWEVER, this isn’t immediatly effective in one certain area many people will try to use it for: firing off the rail. With its high acceleration, its G-Load is offset by the speed and distance it’s traveling, making its immediate turning curve almost identical to that of the Aim-9L off the rail. However, in a setting where it isn’t pulling off the rail, or pulls enough lead on the target, then that 40Gs will start to show. If there’s a maneuvering target, the Python 3 will be the better missile in that situation, easily.
Secondly (And Most Importantly): The Fuze.
In the files/datamines, you can see that the Aim-9L has a fuze delay of 1.8, meaning it takes 1.8 seconds from firing the missile for its proximity fuze to activate. This is not the case for the Python 3, as it has a 0.5 Fuze Delay, meaning it arms its proximity fuze in half a second! Pair this with its amazing acceleration and ability to close distances really fast, and you have an extremely potent missile for headons!!! The Aim-9L is practically unusable in headons, as it would require a direct hit, or the enemy to just not flare. In the case of the Python 3, it has the ability to just murder people in a way the R-60M can, but even better. It’s also quite resistant to flares in my experience, as by the time the missile reaches the target the flares are too close to the plane and the missile proxies on the plane. (Correct me if I’m wrong y’all, but I believe I remember a year or so ago, maybe less, when the Aim-9s first received their Fuze Arming nerf, the Python 3 was left out of this which is why it has this advantage today. Perhaps it was forgotten, or just a small little thing to make it that much better).
Lastly, The Motor.
This shouldn’t need much of an explanation. It’s just outright better than the Aim-9L in every way. Closes distances insanely fast, better overall range in pretty much every scenario, gives it better flare resistance since it’s closer to the plane, and reaches enemies so fast that if they look away they may die before they look back at you. It’s outstanding, and that’s putting it lightly.
In conclusion:
It it’s a magic murder missile, but it’s better than the Aim-9L. Whether that warrants a higher BR for aircraft that have it is up to gaijin, and they seem to think so. The Python 3 has a better motor, can be used in headons, and has great maneuverability. It’s a spectacular missile for any aircraft that has it.
Direct hits can still result in kills. This is likely what occurred.