F16 12.3 discussion and similar aircraft

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the relegation of BR from F16A is somewhat controversial and incongruent with the current meta of this BR.
Not only that, it calls into question the position and function of similar aircraft such as the Mig 29, mirage 2000 and Netz, perhaps there are better solutions that we will address in this topic.

The problem with the US F16A at 12.3 is its flight performance, which is very, very good, being compatible with 14.0 aircraft such as the Eurofighter and Rafale.
Many planes have weapons equal to (like the J37D with 6x9L or f20) or superior to the F16A, but its flight performance is very different and superior to all the rest, putting the F16 in a very strange spot…
…and this strange spot generates a certain inconsistency in the balancing of other planes like the mirage, mig29 and the netz.

Let’s start with the planes with the same BR (12.3) as the F16A, which are the JH7A, F4EJ Kai and Kunnas 2000.

all these planes have access to non-irccm missiles and the ej kai has aim7F.

The jh 7A has a very unique missile which is the pl5c ( pl5 with all aspect seeker) and the pl8 which is a python3, they are great misses ir, they are flareble, and the plane has a good flight model for an attack plane, but nothing compared to the f16a.
Kunnas 2000 it’s a f4 with 6x python3, It’s a pretty strong and consistent plane for its BR, has good flight performance due to its agile eagle package, this combined with good missiles and a good number of measured accounts, standards make it a very consistent aircraft, it also has a good radar but it does not have any radar-guided weapons, and yet this plane is completely obliterated by the f16A.
f4ej kai has the same ir missiles as the f16, if I’m not mistaken it has the same radar, it has ai7F radar missiles which are ok, and even so it is completely obliterated by the f16, the only “advantage” it has over the f16 are the radar missiles, but the f16 can easily shorten the distance and beat the ej kai.

Honorable mentions for mig21 bison and f20;
The Mig 21 Bison has an excellent missile kit, but it doesn’t have the power or energy retention to deal with the F16 in any way, since the F16 be careful with the R73 and an easy-to-deal match up.
f20 can take 6x9L like f16 but any attempt to fight against f16 becomes frustrating, as f16 wins the confrontation in less than 2 curves or 2 at most.
The f16 is practically untouchable by the 12.3 planes if played well, in down tier matches it (f16) is the true match destroyer.

Now let’s move on to the part where things start to get really weird when it comes to decision making in terms of balancing.

Planes 12.7 vs f16A

I’ll start with the 2 biggest elephants in the room which are the Mig 29 and Netz.
The mig 29 when it came to the game, it came with the r73 and had its flight model artificially nerfed.
I think it’s time to give the Mig29 its true flight performance and especially to return the R73s to it, So why does a 12.7 plane still use r60mk? The absurd nerf that the Mig29 took was due to its discrepancies when compared to the F16A. The F16 has a completely broken flight model, without a g limiter, it went to 12.3 and the Mig 29 still doesn’t have its armament and its FM.
If the f16 remains at 12.3, you must give the Mig 29 a minimum of dignity so it can remain at 12.7.
F16A netz…oh boy here we go again… why, but just tell me why this plane is at 12.7 and the f16A is at 12.3, they are the SAME FUCKING PLANE, the only difference is the missiles and it does not justify this discrepancy in br… Python 3s are considerably better at short distances, that’s a fact, but the 9L is better at long distances because it has less drag, and only a small difference in gameplay, but in essence they are the same plane, patch comes and patch goes and the Netz always ends up in BR above the F16A.
Yak141 this plane is very problematic… he has a FM UFO, not as UFO as the F16, he has 4x good missiles but he is contained in the 12.7 and from this br he must not leave.
Mirage2k s5 This plane took a long time to go up to 12.7, but it’s a fair br, to be honest even the s4 should be 12.7, and even so it is an aircraft that does not have a flight performance that comes close to the F16A.
mirage 2k d and rmv They are the worse version of the same.
F16ADF, MLU and AJ They are practically identical to the f16A only with access to the aim7.

All BR 12.7 planes that are not F16s lose to the F16 A due to the pure performance of the F16A.

If the F16 beats all the 12.3 planes and beats all the 12.7 planes that are not F16s, why did it go to 12.3?
This plane shouldn’t be 12.3, it should remain 12.7 along with the netz and the other f16s (adf, mlu and aj) should go up to 13.0 but with aim9m and aim7m.
the same for the mig29, it should have r73, have its true flight performance and go up to 13.0.
the solution is never to recompress, it is decompress.
There are already Mig 29s in 13.0 like the Mig29 G and it is a good plane, and there is already the F16 A 13.0 with AIM9M in the Benelux TT, which would also is a good plane.
these changes in f16s and mig 29 would work, there would be decompressio, and it would be as fair as possible without ruining any br.

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Did they just change that to 12.3? I play 3 countries and i just was grinding the strike tree and noticed that it was 12.3 which seemed broken so i googled it and found this

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Yup.

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Early F16As with only IR MSLs has been changed to 12.3, but ADF/MLU or other late versions are not (which can access SARH).

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I agree with this. But I doubt some of your other arguments.

SARH MSLs can provide more attacking chances, at least they can force the enemy into a evasive maneuver.
BTW, the MLU version has TWS mode, which improves its situation awareness. (I remember f16a early doesn’t have, i’m not sure about this)

You didn’t mention MiG-29’s main advantage and that’s why it seems this plane has no dignity. R27ER is always the most powerful SARH MSL, even faster than most fox-3s in most cases. Not to mention its HMS, making locking easier.

Agree with this if this is true… I’m afraid gaijin thinks Python-3s are at same level with 9M/R73…

Agree, but I think JH7A should be 12.0. This will be better.

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Well technically speaking, the F-16A-10 Netz not only has the Python 3 but it’s also supposed to have an additional 120 countermeasures. Ofc it doesn’t have that ingame (hopefully someday it will), but it’d be a bit potent being the same BR as the Kurnass 2000 (which does need to go down anyway…).

Simple solution to all these issues: Decompression.

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Well , i agree for the most part .
The points i wouldn’t agree is mostly because of what actually happens. GJ in general, rarely updates the armament of some planes (maybe intentionally). For example, every F-16 is capable of AIM-9M.It’s not that they have to update the software of the planes in game to do it .So they are capable… and they used it. Every plane that was used after 1983 when they deliveries happened , was made to use them. If they can’t use them (for any reason) they could use AIM-9P5 , which is 9P with 9M seekerhead and has IRCCM.
But for some reason , they are very picky .

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Cant agree more this is stupid

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We meed decompression but still it wont save kurnass 2000
This plane needs to go down to 11.7 at min

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kunnas should stay at 12.0-12.3 even though it is a fair plane in this br range, now I don’t know why gaijin is so reluctant and afraid of python3.
Even the Chinese planes that should have the PL8B, which is a Python3 with IRCCM, didn’t come to the game due to the fear and reluctance that gaijin have involving this missile.

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U realise the f4s with radar missiles is 12.0?
If kurnass get its aim7 back it can stay at 12.3 but for now its just a phantom with 6 python 3 on the same br as f16a with the same level of armament and worse fp

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The problem is that K2K has 6 all-aspect and can’t carry AIM-7s , however it can carry AIM-9Ms, but it doesn’t in game.
Also in game, other F-4s can carry all aspect missiles, be it AIM-9L or M or at the very least AIM-9P4/5.

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Huuuuuuuuuh?

Have you flown either jets? It doesn’t matter if it’s a full tank or half empty or near empty tanks, Eurofighter/Rafale are a completely different beast to the F-16A.

So it can pull sort of hard and maintains energy well and can fly circles around most jets in a 2-circle fight. Okay? And how often is this 1v1 scenario happening in top tier? It’s very rare.

The fact of the matter is it’s an F-16 with just AIM-L/Js and no radar missiles at all. You put it up to 12.7 and it gets clobbered in uptiers which happens pretty much every game, you put it at 12.3 where it currently is and you’re only really going to get the jump on someone who doesn’t know how to flare AIM-9L (in 2025, really?).

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As has already been stated in this thread, it’s more of a 12.0 aircraft at the moment. It belongs at 12.0 as a contemporary to the Kfir C.7 as they both preform phenomenally at the BR for what they offer.

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On top of having 6 of the Python 3s, it also has a better PD radar for target spotting/tracking and getting a gun solution or radar slaving. It also has the best agile eagle package ingame, and thus the best flight performance of any phantom ingame until the F-4-2000 Super Kurnass arrives. Lastly it has a better RWR than the F-4S, as well as a lot more countermeasures, like a LOT. It also has a built in targeting pod, which can be used to gain a gun solution on a aircraft as strange as it sounds, and it can’t be chaffed like the radar can last I checked. It would be fine at 12.0, but it wouldn’t make any sense for it to be lower than the F-4J/S, ever.

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F-16A at 12.3 is not broken. All your post is assuming a 1v1 which hardly ever happens at these high tiers.

Here’s video showcasing how F-16A is actually quiet bad at head-on’s, and you face radar/irccm missiles every game, that 60 countermeasures is gonna run out quick before you can really use that flight model. F-16 only shines on late game, where 1-2 enemies are left.

EDIT: and also you definetely need the Expert crew to make full use that of flight model, which gatekeeps a lot of players since most won’t pay extra 1 mil SL for this.

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Yes it is

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No it isn’t

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The radar is useless without radar missiles its better to keep it off and not trigger the rwr of enemies
And wdym “best agile eagle” its the same as other phantoms
Sure cm helps but still only 6 ir non irccm against fox 3?and it still a phantom so u gonna lose almost every df and ur engines arent the best
F16s gonna shit on u the k2k needs its aim7 back or go down to 11.7 just above the f4e and against mig23ml seems fair to me
Kfir is also not in a great state cuz the lack of missiles and cm but i agree it cant go down or it will be to strong aginst 10.7

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Most of the people complaining about it don’t even know how to force a 1v1 and usually disregard the entire team aspect of 16v16. After playing a few battles of it at 12.3 it seems very balanced, the flight performance compliments the aim9l but everything it faces, even at 11.3, has no problems flairing off the aim9l and getting help from team mates to get you off their 6. There are definitely games when you go 6-0 in it, but it’s much harder to do than in many other aircraft. I’m an average-slightly above average player and don’t ever feel threatened by f-16as when I see them on the opposing team, I just kill them from 20km away or fly near friendlies to pick them off.
I bet if these players complaining about it being at 12.4 would fly it at 12.3 more they would see it falls in line with anything else, you have a fairly even distribution of horrible, bad, good, and amazing games. (Unlike something unbalanced like the j-7d or Ariete which I never get less than 2 kills a game and often get over 5)

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