Event star - data collection (CONCLUDED)

[_retro_gamer]

@sardinha08

@Beeschurger

absolutely not. dont remove the option to grind the event faster and in more efficient way for people that cant afford to play 8 hours a day.

You know that there are a lot of AB players that can’t also afford to play 8h a day, it’s not their fault that the average RB player scores less and needs to have a bigger multiplier to even the different game mode scores. Except what you are really saying is “Gaijin please don’t remove my big multiplier or I’ll have to play for a much longer time”.

Haha, nailed it. He first tells us that the time needed to complete the event is not that much, then opposes to suffer arcade multipliers because he will need more time to do it. Flash news! Making it even across the modes and BRs doesn’t mean to use arcade 4.3 multipliers all across the board. It could very well mean to use those from realistic 11.0.

Other than that, funny to see how some people can’t understand what the concept of average player is. Average is defined by looking the scoreboard at the end of every game, not by what someone thinks every player should be able to do (i.e, cap something and kill two or three enemies).

Events should be tailored for the average player, for the sake of discussion, 1000 points. Those getting less, will take longer, obviously. Those getting more will take less.

I needed yestarday more than 5h to get the star in an AB 6.0 ground lineup with an average score of 2000 points per game. So yes, I don’t need somebody from another game mode I don’t play at all to tell me that it can be done in less than 3h.

[Beeschurger]

Data that was collected in the other post finally showed any concrete data on topic of what is average player or what is his performance. I could still argue, the sample size is relatively small (100 people as bruce claims) to the peak active playerbase (some 230k people) but its still the best data we currently have.

And, assuming the data is correct and not skewed, I am not as average player regarding ground realistic battles as I thought I am.

before that data was collected tho, there was nothing concrete to go off from, and I dont like to take claims as facts.

[Miragen]

The average player doesn’t complete it in 1.6h though.

5.7 US lineup to be below average (1 hour 38 minutes)

[sardinha08]

@_retro_gamer

I needed yestarday more than 5h to get the star in an AB 6.0 ground lineup with an average score of 2000 points per game. So yes, I don’t need somebody from another game mode I don’t play at all to tell me that it can be done in less than 3h.

You should check this thread, it helps us, as Ground AB players, to understand why we keep seeing some say the events are easy and quick to make, clearly cause they do not play Ground AB.

We’ve been having really unfair multipliers in Ground AB since they introduced them in events.

[_retro_gamer]

Indeed. I remember when they were task based. I could do air in 45’ (kills, x kills in one game and assists) and ground in 2-3h (caps, kills & assists, and sometimes x kills in one game). Good old times… Now I need 5-6h for ground and I don’t even bother with air.

[sardinha08]

I forgot to link the thread =P

Data Analysis: what is the actual average player's score per mode? (and how long will it take you to do this event)

Okay, so this post is going to be long, but I think it’s important enough, because it affects everybody given the new event structure. What is the actual average score per mode? And how much variation is there between good players and average players in the time to complete score based tasks. So first we’re going to establish what the average score is, and how it changes with player capability. We’re going to stick to AB/RB for this, as Sim Air is very different in a lot of ways, and Sim Groun…

[Beeschurger]

@_retro_gamer

then opposes to suffer arcade multipliers because he will need more time to do it

thats not entirely correct and misleading tho.

my issue is that by making the multiplier the same for all game modes and ranks, event requirement will be balanced around that and it removes the option for working people like me to just go through the event more efficiently and in shorter time.

even as far back as 25th january, i was saying this.

second issue is that by making the multipliers universal all across the game mode and rank, people wouldnt need to weight their opinions - would they go and play lower rank, which has more newer players and thus its easier, but with worse multipliers, or top tier?

now would they go to game mode and rank which would allow them farm the most points. Which would be, most likely, rank I using event rank I vehicles and sealclubbing the everliving hell out of new players.

higher multipliers at higher ranks keep the turbosweats out ouf lower ranks.

[sardinha08]

@_retro_gamer

Indeed. I remember when they were task based. I could do air in 45’ (kills, x kills in one game and assists) and ground in 2-3h (caps, kills & assists, and sometimes x kills in one game). Good old times…

The fastest I did Air was in 3 matches, 12 kills, 30 kills total and TNT on bases, then I just played more casually the Ground part, still it would take much less than now. More important, I would kept playing the game for fun after getting the event done, now I just get the star and log off.

@_retro_gamer

Now I need 5-6h for ground and I don’t even bother with air.

I got a bit bored of Air but I would return to it during events, now I do not even bother cause since it takes so much longer I have to choose between Air and Ground, so I pick ground which is what I currently play.

[Beeschurger]

@_retro_gamer

I remember when they were task based.

task based events were an absolute ass for everyone involved. i still remember ten R3s rushing cap as soon as they spawned and then J out and go into another battle, leaving you with team of 5 against team of 16.

[_retro_gamer]

@Beeschurger

@_retro_gamer

then opposes to suffer arcade multipliers because he will need more time to do it

thats not entirely correct and misleading tho.

my issue is that by making the multiplier the same for all game modes and ranks, event requirement will be balanced around that and it removes the option for working people like me to just go through the event more efficiently and in shorter time.

Well you missed the flash news. They weren’t flashy enough I suppose. If they’d set the multipliers of your game mode and BR all across modes and BRs, you would be doing the event exactly as fast as you’re doing it now (and are happy with). I’m working people also, and I just started spading Israel tree. Why should I be punished by doing so?

@Beeschurger

second issue is that by making the multipliers universal all across the game mode and rank, people wouldnt need to weight their opinions - would they go and play lower rank, which has more newer players and thus its easier, but with worse multipliers, or top tier?

now would they go to game mode and rank which would allow them farm the most points. Which would be, most likely, rank I using event rank I vehicles and sealclubbing the everliving hell out of new players.

higher multipliers at higher ranks keep the turbosweats out ouf lower ranks.

Do you consider 7.7 “newbies area”? Or 6.0? Or 4.3? Well, guess what. Israel tier IV AB has vehicles of all these BRs. And you get 0,93*0,9 multiplier no matter what by playing this wide range of BRs.

Is tier III “newbies area”? Well, Gaijin itself doesn’t seem to consider so, as from most events it excludes only tier I and II.

And guess what else. If all experienced players move down to tier I, you won’t be farming as much as you think, as you’ll be trying to farm mostly other farmers.

@Beeschurger

task based events were an absolute ass for everyone involved. i still remember ten R3s rushing cap as soon as they spawned and then J out and go into another battle, leaving you with team of 5 against team of 16.

Point is, they could be done way faster. They had other drawbacks sure. I had to stop spading what I was spading and use dedicated lineups, but as they were only 2 events a year, it was not much of a problem. I was back to spading soon enough. Now, in AB, even if I use dedicated lineups, I still need way more time than before. That’s why I decided to stick to the lineups I’m spading, and that’s why I don’t like the ever increasing points requirement and why I even stopped doing the air events.

And I won’t even get into how they nerfed point rewards along time, at least in arcade. A cap and three OHK kills nowadays may not even grant you 1000 points. They nerfed caps, they nerfed kills, they nerfed assists, they nerfed bomb drops… and on top of that we get <1 multipliers.

@sardinha08

I forgot to link the thread =P
Data Analysis: what is the actual average player's score per mode? (and how long will it take you to do this event)

Yep, no worries. I read it too! :-)

[Beeschurger]

@_retro_gamer

Well you missed the flash news. They weren’t flashy enough I suppose. If they’d set the multipliers of your game mode and BR all across modes and BRs, you would be doing the event exactly as fast as you’re doing it now

I will try to say it again, and slowly so that you can catch up.

If they made the modifiers universal across all the game modes and ranks, score would be most likely changed as to accomodate for it.

Now the score would be the same no matter the rank or Arcade/Realistic.

Guess what, this would make it unfair for anyone NOT playing arcade, low rank or both, as thats where the most score per mission can be achieved due to being much more forgiving to mistakes and having all sorts of training wheels like pen indicator, automatic spotting system and all vehicles behaving like go carts on cocaine.

So in order to complete the event in the most fastest and efficient way possible, people like me that are not interested in arcade would need to go out of their way and play arcade.

So just like it is now, just reversed. And you have problem with it when it doesnt suit you. Funny aint it. Rules for the but not for me?

So yeah, whatever.

As i said MORE THAN A WEEK AGO, lower the required score. Hell, even balance it for the average player, even if that average player plays arcade exclusively, but keep both arcade/realistic and rank bonuses.

Tha actually benefits everyone, people still can opt in to finish even faster, there are no turbosweats at rank I farming new players, and average player can finish the event in reasonable amout of time.

@_retro_gamer

Do you consider 7.7 “newbies area”? Or 6.0? Or 4.3? Well, guess what. Israel tier IV AB has vehicles of all these BRs. And you get 0,93*0,9 multiplier no matter what by playing this wide range of BRs.

Is tier III “newbies area”?

Nothing you said here is relevant in any way.

@_retro_gamer

Gaijin itself doesn’t seem to consider so, as from most events it excludes only tier I and II.

EXCEPT for event rank Is and IIs vehicles which can be used to grind for event. THAT is the issue.

@_retro_gamer

all experienced players

Not all. Turbosweats. New players would still outnumber them.

@_retro_gamer

Point is, they could be done way faster

At the expense of anyone trying to play normally, like with R3s.

Unlike now, where people play relatively normally.

[_retro_gamer]

@Beeschurger

@_retro_gamer

Well you missed the flash news. They weren’t flashy enough I suppose. If they’d set the multipliers of your game mode and BR all across modes and BRs, you would be doing the event exactly as fast as you’re doing it now

I will try to say it again, and slowly so that you can catch up.

If they made the modifiers universal across all the game modes and ranks, score would be most likely changed as to accomodate for it.

[…]
So in order to complete the event in the most fastest and efficient way possible, people like me that are not interested in arcade would need to go out of their way and play arcade.

So just like it is now, just reversed. And you have problem with it when it doesnt suit you. Funny aint it. Rules for the but not for me?

So yeah, whatever.

As i said MORE THAN A WEEK AGO, lower the required score. Hell, even balance it for the average player, even if that average player plays arcade exclusively, but keep both arcade/realistic and rank bonuses.

Tha actually benefits everyone, people still can opt in to finish even faster, there are no turbosweats at rank I farming new players, and average player can finish the event in reasonable amout of time.

I don’t need to catch up. You are making an absurd assumption. If they make modifiers universal (aka remove them), and then increase the score needed, the complaining about taking too long to complete will still stand, which is what triggered this whole discussion in the first place.

So, obviously, me wanting multipliers to be removed implies also wanting to keep or even lower required score.

@Beeschurger

Now the score would be the same no matter the rank or Arcade/Realistic.

Guess what, this would make it unfair for anyone NOT playing arcade, low rank or both, as thats where the most score per mission can be achieved due to being much more forgiving to mistakes and having all sorts of training wheels like pen indicator, automatic spotting system and all vehicles behaving like go carts on cocaine.

Guess what. In arcade is as easier to kill, as it is to die. And as Bruce pointed out in the other thread, the difference in average score is not as significant as the multipliers applied.

@Beeschurger

@_retro_gamer

Do you consider 7.7 “newbies area”? Or 6.0? Or 4.3? Well, guess what. Israel tier IV AB has vehicles of all these BRs. And you get 0,93*0,9 multiplier no matter what by playing this wide range of BRs.

Is tier III “newbies area”?

Nothing you said here is relevant in any way.

Well according to you, higher multipliers in higher ranks prevent people to go to lower ranks to farm on newbies. As tier III and IV have <1 multipliers, I’m just curious to know if you consider these two tiers filled with newbies too.

@Beeschurger

@_retro_gamer

Gaijin itself doesn’t seem to consider so, as from most events it excludes only tier I and II.

EXCEPT for event rank Is and IIs vehicles which can be used to grind for event. THAT is the issue.

Yeah, except that very clause that they added not long ago and that they could remove as easy as they added it. The point still stands. Traditionally tier I and II have always been excluded from events. No exceptions.

[sardinha08]

@Beeschurger

Guess what, this would make it unfair for anyone NOT playing arcade, low rank or both, as thats where the most score per mission can be achieved due to being much more forgiving to mistakes and having all sorts of training wheels like pen indicator, automatic spotting system and all vehicles behaving like go carts on cocaine.

So now you understand why the current situation is unfair to Ground AB players, cause RB players need less effort to score more and do the event much faster.
Also, those “training wheels” you mention, it’s as if those that shoot at you don’t have them. As in, it’s easier for Ground AB players to get kills but isn’t it easier for enemy Ground AB players to kill you too? So, it’s as hard cause your advantages are the same as the enemies have.
Ground RB also has some “training wheels” in the form of how the ragefinder works at higher tiers, while Ground AB players have to set the distance manually.

[Beeschurger]

@_retro_gamer

increase the score needed, the complaining about taking too long to complete will still stand,

yes, thats why I said lower the required score. That would actually benefit everyone.

@_retro_gamer

So, obviously, me wanting multipliers to be removed implies also wanting to keep or even lower required score.

again. As it is easier to gain score in arcade, removing multipliers would now make arcade THE most efficient way to grind, and people that dont want to play arcade but want to grind in the most efficient way possible would have to go out of their way to do so.

Something you dont wanna to do yourself.

@_retro_gamer

Well according to you, higher multipliers in higher ranks prevent people to go to lower ranks to farm on newbies.

yes, because of worse multipliers at lower ranks, turbosweats now have to choose. remove those worse modifiers and turbosweats now dont have to choose.

@_retro_gamer

As tier III and IV have <1 multipliers

I wouldnt be opposed to fixing rank III and IV multipliers to be x1.0. because that would still be worse than top tier multipliers.

@_retro_gamer

I’m just curious to know if you consider these two tiers filled with newbies too

rank III and IV is pretty easily accesible to even new f2p players. Not as much filled with newbies as rank I, but they can still be encountered. Their average skill would still be lower than skill of someone who reached top tier properly through tech tree.

@_retro_gamer

Guess what. In arcade is as easier to kill, as it is to die

does not remove the fact that there are multiple training wheels aviable.

@_retro_gamer

And as Bruce pointed out in the other thread, the difference in average score is not as significant as the multipliers applied.

the base arcade score without multipliers is still higher. and remember, thats average.

@_retro_gamer

Traditionally tier I and II have always been excluded from events. No exceptions.

both irrelevant and factually incorrect. tier I event vehicles are allowed to participate in events, and thus this fact needs to be considered unless they remove it.

should they remove it is entirely different question.

[sardinha08]

@Beeschurger

the base arcade score without multipliers is still higher. and remember, thats average.

The most important table there and what really matters in the end is this:

And it shows that Ground RB players get ~40% more score per hour than Ground AB players

[Beeschurger]

@sardinha08

Ground RB also has some “training wheels” in the form of how the ragefinder works at higher tiers, while Ground AB players have to set the distance manually.

went into test drive on arcade settings, shells land pretty much at the white cross/penetration indicator at all times, tested this on Leo2A7 and Jagdtiger. As long as the target gets “highlighted” in red, the white cross adjusts the range automatically.

So let me get this straight.

• arcade players dont have to remember or study armor profiles of enemy tanks as the game just tells them with penetration indicator
• arcade players get upgraded mobility and agility on all of their vehicles, both air and ground
• arcade players get highlighted enemies so they dont have to rely on their own reflexes

but on top of all that, arcade players also dont have to rangefind even with WW2 vehicles, with only slight advantage of ground realistic LRF at top tier against targets that dont get highlighted?

mmmkay.

now im even more convinced that ENTIRELY REMOVING arcade/realistic/sim modifiers would be unfair to anyone not playing arcade and that it is much easier to score higher score in arcade battles.

@sardinha08

As in, it’s easier for Ground AB players to get kills but isn’t it easier for enemy Ground AB players to kill you too? So, it’s as hard cause your advantages are the same as the enemies have.

i suppose that just like with thermals, you just adapt your playstyle to fit circumstances at hand.

[sardinha08]

@Beeschurger

went into test drive on arcade settings, shells land pretty much at the white cross/penetration indicator at all times, tested this on Leo2A7 and Jagdtiger. As long as the target gets “highlighted” in red, the white cross adjusts the range automatically.

You don’t have “white cross” at long distances in Ground AB. So it’s faster to aim at long distances in high tiers in Ground RB due to the ragefinder.

[Beeschurger]

@sardinha08

You don’t have “white cross” at long distances in Ground AB. So it’s faster to aim at long distances in high tiers in Ground RB due to the ragefinder.

but at any other distance, arcade players get pseudo-rangefinder, as long as target is “highlighted”, in form of white cross, even on WW2 vehicles.

[Nike Ajax]

@Beeschurger

• arcade players get highlighted enemies so they dont have to rely on their own reflexes

RB players can just buy bushes to conceal themselves while in arcade you can’t hide yourself with money

[Beeschurger]

@simbadumba

RB players can just buy bushes to conceal themselves while in arcade you can’t hide yourself with money

i guess thanks for proving my point that arcade players get highlighted enemies so they dont have to rely on their reflexes.