Discussion of Italian Aircraft and Italian Air TT rework (No Subtrees required)

Hello this is a thread about the discussion of Aircraft produced in Italy and/or operated by the Italian Air Force, this will be similar to the thread i made with Swedish and Finnish vehicles. I’ll also be posting a image of a reworked Italian Air TT with two parts, Tier’s I-IV’s and Tier’s V-IX, i’ll be not including any subtrees in it since Italy inspite what some people state, Italy doesn’t really need a subtree, especially at the earlier tiers.

Disclamer: Any proposals/suggestions for any subtrees in the rework will not be permitted. Vehicles made in Italy that is operated by a foreign country are allowed as long as it is from a nation that cannot realistically be added even as a subtree let alone a full tt. Joint projects, unfinished prototypes, proposed and captured vehicles are also allowed though should not actively be encouraged for the two latter

You have being warned

If there is any mistakes or possible additions, please let me know

This is a work in progress so everything is subject to change

One final thing i’ll be ordering it by Line instead or Manufacturer or Nation with the exception of the Premium, Event, Squadron and Hidden lines, they will be sorted by Tier instead. There will be five lines in the rework

Screenshot of the reworks

Tier’s I-IV’s

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Tier’s V-IX’s

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Lines (Tier’s I-IV)

Foreign and Co-Belligerent line: This line will consist of aircraft of foreign origin that was operated by the Regia Aeronatuica, ANR, Co-Belligerent Air Force and the current Aeronautica Militare with some exceptions apply

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Ro.41 (Reserve): Operated by all Italian Airforces including the current iteration of the Italian Airforce

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The Ro.41 is a biplane built by IMAN in the mid 1930’s, more than 740 Ro.41’s were produced starting 1934, because of the Ro.41’s early adoption it first saw military service during the Spanish Civil war by both the Spanish Nationalists and Italian volunteers (Aviazione Legionaria), Ro.41’s also saw limited service in North African and Italian campaigns by all sides (including the Luftwaffe). After the second world war Italy unlike the other 2 main Axis still retain some of their Airforce privileges though still some restrictions applied to them which includes a temporary prohibition of acquiring new high-preforming aircraft. Because of that the reformed Aeronautica Militare used the Ro.41 as a training aid until 1950, making it one of the few biplanes used post WWII in military use

This was added to the Foreign/Co-Belligerent line so it would start with a reserve vehicle or the very least a 1.0 Aircraft

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f1552b98e26c04085751eb1483dfcb17

Do-217 J-2 (1.3)

Ju-87 R-5 trop (1.7): Replaces the current R-1 with the R-5 trop

Ju-87 D-3 (2.0)

D.520 (2.7): Captured from the French

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At least 70 D.520’s from the French, due to the huge number of D.250’s that the Italians operated during the Second World War it will be a TT vehicle instead of a premium partially due to the precedent set by the Chinese TT that not all Captured vehicles need to be premiums. Also it will be a good gap filler

P-39N (3.0): *Operated by the Co-Belligerent Airforce

P-39Q (3.3): Operated by the Co-Belligerent Airforce

Bf 109 F-2 (3.3):

SB2C-4 (3.7):

Bf 109 G-4 (4.3):

P-38L-1 (4.3):

P-47D-30 (5.0):

Bf 109 G-10 (5.0):

Bf 109 G-14 AS (5.3): Already implemented during the release of the Italian TT

Bf 109 K-4 (5.7):

Spitfire LF & HF Mk.IX (5.7):

Reggiane & Other Italian Manufacturer line: This line will consist of aircraft made by Reggiane and other Italian Manufacturers including SAI Ambrosini, IMAN, Piaggio, Caproni, Aeronautica Umbra Trojani and a few more not listed

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SIAI S.67 & CANT 25 (Reserve & 1.0):

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The S.67 and CANT 25 are interesting vehicles since they are floatplanes that are designed for the sole purpose as a fighter, this was made in 1930 & 1927 respectively, due to them being flying boats from the late 1920’s they will be quite slow

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SIAI S.67
SIAI_S.67
CANT 25

Ro.44 (1.0):

Caproni CH-1 (1.0):

Aeronautica Umbra Trojani AUT.18 (1.7):

Re.2000 serie I & serie III G.A (2.0):

Re.2001 serie I & CB (2.3):

Re.2002 Early (2.3):

Re.2003 (2.7):

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The Re.2003 is a two seater Reece bomber derivative of the Re.2002, the canopy was elongated to fit the second crew member (Radioman and gunner). The Re.2003 has it’s wing mounted guns removed but gained a .30cal Breda Safat LMG turret at the back. It can carry up to 500kg of bombs in total including a 500kg bomb in the centre rack.

2 prototypes were built and one of them was used briefly by the Luftwaffe as a trainer

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ZwhtIcu-1283053284

Caproni Vizzola F.5bis and F.6Z (2.3 & 2.7):

Ambrosini SAI 207 (3.3):

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The SAI 207 was Ambrosini’s first attempt at making a light fighter during 1941. To keep it as light as possible it is only made with light materials such as wood, the lightness of the plane is intentional not only for dogfighting capabilities but also to account for the underpowered Isotta Fraschini Delta III R.C.40 which only made 750 horsepower. It indeed showed good manoeuvrability and a very high top speed, however it came at a cost. Firstly the climbrate suffered and secondly due to how it is constructed, the plane recoiled when the prototype with the MG-151’s fired it’s cannon (The SAI.207 was normally equipped with a pair of nose mounted 50.cal Breda Safat)

It saw a short service in the Italian Air Force due to the pilots have unsatisfactory characteristics with the performance with this plane. 14 total were built

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SAI.207-788x544

Here is a link to the SAI.207 below
Ambrosini SAI.207

Re.2001 OR & G/H (3.3):

Re.2001 CN (3.3):

IMAN Ro.58 (3.7):

Piaggio P.119 (4.0):

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The P.119 is a prototype fighter designed by Piaggio in 1940 as a evolution of the P.118. It is a central mounted engine aircraft, that isn’t unusual since that engine configuration is tested by Japan, France & Germany for example. Even the Americans made some production mid engine fighters mainly the Cobra family which were loved by everyone that used them other than the Americans. No what makes this plane unusual is that it uses a radial engine instead of a inline engine that mid-engine aircraft normally used, this makes it unique among other mid engine fighters. It is equipped with a 20mm Breda autocannon firing from the propeller (110 rounds) and 4 nose mounted Breda Safat 50.cals (2000 rounds in total), a 37mm autocannon was proposed for this aircraft in place of the 20mm but it was never fitted. the P.119 first flew in December 12 1942.

It never passed the prototype phase due to the armistice and some technical issues

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piaggio-p-119_1
p119-2

Ambrosini SAI 403B “Dardo-Bis” and SAI 403C “Dardo-Ter” (4.7):

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The SAI.403 Dardo (Dart) was an evolution and response to the subpar SAI.207, it follows a lot of the same design queues from the 207 with some to alleviate the issues of the previous aircraft. Also the wings were redesinged to take autocannons including their recoil into account. Speaking of Cannons, this is where the 403B & 403C differ. The 403B has the Breda Safat HMG’s from the 207 in addition to wing mounted MG.151’s more specifically the 15mm variant, this gives the 403B a surprisingly capable ground attack capability for what it is. The 403C on the other had the Breda Safats removed in favor of additional fuel tanks instead relying on the 20mm MG-151’s as it’s main armament. The 403A has an identical weapon layout to the SAI.207 hence why it is not mentioned here other than a passing

One was ultimately built and it was tested by the Regia Aeronautica, ANR, the Luftwaffe and interestingly it is one of the very few planes Imperial Japan test since some Japanese test pilots and observers were present in Northern Italy at the time. Heinkel and Mitsubishi obtain licenses to build the SAI.403 however it never fully materialized

Re.2004 and Re.2005 serie 0 (5.0 & 5.3):

Fiat and Macchi line: Self explanatory

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CR.30 & CR.30 Idro (Reserve and 1.0):

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Essentially a predecessor of the CR.32, equipped with lmg’s instead of the 50.cals as well as a weaker engine. The Idro is the floatplane variant

CR.32 & CR.32 quater (1.0 & 1.3):

CR.42 Early, ICR-42 & CR.42 AS (1.3 & 1.7): The CR.42 ingame is now specified as the CR.42 (E)

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The Earlier CR.42’s originally only had 1 50cal and 1 30cal Breda Safat MG’s and only had both HMG’s. Because of that the CR.42 will start with 1 50cal and 1 30cal and can have the 30cal be swapped with another 50.cal in a researchable upgrade akin to the Ki-43-I’s. The ICR-42 is a floatplane variant of the CR.42. Finally the CR.42AS is a fighter bomber variant of the CR.42, equip with additional pair of 50.cal Breda Safat in the wings and a pair of 50 or 100kg bombs

G.50 serie 2 & G.50 AS serie 7 (2.0): both implemented during the release of the German TT, later added to the Italian TT

C.200 serie 3 & C.200 serie 7 (2.0 & 2.3): implemented during the release of the German TT, later added to the Italian TT

C.202 & C.202 CB (3.0):

C.205 serie 1 (3.3):

C.202 EC (4.0):

G.55 sottoserie 0 & C.205N-1 (4.0):

G.55 serie 1 (4.7): implemented during the release of the Italian Air TT

C.205 serie 3 & C.205N-2 (4.7): both are implemented during the release of the Italian Air TT

G.59-4A (5.3):

G.56 (6.3): implemented during the release of the Italian Air TT

Ground Attack and Dive bombers: Self explanatory

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Ro.37bis (1.0):

Caproni Ca.305 AP.1 (1.0):

Breda Ba-64, Ba-65 (K-14) L & Ba.65bis (1.3 & 1.7):

Breda Ba.88M (1.7): Replaces the current Ba.88

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The Ba.88M was an attempt to address the massive issues that the Ba.88 had which included the minor issue of refusing to gain sufficient lift. The engineers at Breda solution is to increase the wing size by 2 meters, dive brakes are also added. The original Piaggio P.XI RC.40 engines were also replaced with more powerful Fiat A.74 RC.38. Finally to increase it’s firepower an extra Breda Safat 50.cal increasing from 3 to four and the bombload has being increased as well.

Three’s Ba.88’s were modified to Ba.88M specs the armistice and was tested by the ANR & Luftwaffe, the fate was unknown after 1943, most likely scrapped

The Ba.88M will replace the Ba.88 due to even though it was a limited modification run it is superior to the main production variant. The Ba.88 ingame like IRL has subpar performance (though the issues with the Ba.88 ingame isn’t as extreme as the Ba.88’s IRL)

Here is a link to a suggestion for implementing the Ba.88M below
Breda Ba.88M

CANSA FC.12 (1.7):

Breda Ba.201 (2.0):

Piaggio P.108A serie 2 (2.3): implemented during the release of the Italian Air TT

FC.20bis & FC.20quater (2.3 & 3.0):

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The FC.20bis is already implemented, the quater on the other hand has some improvements over the bis. First thing to note is that the FC.20quater equipped MG-151’s autocannons greatly increasing the firepower. The second difference is the original Breda 37mm is replaced with a licensed built Mauser 37mm cannon. The final difference is that the FC.20quater had it’s engines replaced with DB601 engines, giving it greatly improved performance, increasing the top speed by 80kph from the bis

Macchi MB.323 (2.3):

Caproni Ca.314C (2.7):

IMAN Ro.57bis (3.0):

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You are wondering: “Isn’t the Ro.57bis already ingame as the Event Ro.57 Quadriarma?”, well not really, the Quadriarma is a prototype of the Ro.57bis, mainly because the Italian Airforce (normally) don’t use 20mm Hispano cannons, especially in the Second World war. When the Ro.57bis is officially accept it used MG-151’s instead (either the 15mm or 20mm autocannon variants). Because of that the TT Ro.57bis will use MG-151’s instead of Hispanos found on the event variant, otherwise it is identical to the Quadriarma

Savoia-Marchetti SM-93 (3.3):

Savoia-Marchetti SM-89 (3.3):

Savoia-Marchetti SM-91 & 92 (4.0 & 4.3):

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Both are currently added though they are still missing some of their payloads which includes the following

SM.91

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An centreline payload which includes

  • Bombs (50kg, 100kg, 160kg, 250kg & 500kg)
  • External fuelpod (fuel pods can also be mounted on the wings)

SM.92

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  • External fuelpods on the wings

Caproni Ca.331 CN (DB-605) (4.7):

Aermacchi/Valmet 290TP Redigo (5.3): Joint Italo-Finnish venture, [possibly] operated by Eritrea

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The Redigo is a Turboprop Trainer and COIN aircraft by Finnish Firm Valmet with Aermacchi having some input in the design starting in 1985. Aermacchi eventually got the rights to produce the aircraft in 1995. The Italian Airforce never operated the model and Finland never armed their Redigo’s. Two other countries operated the model, Mexico which they do arm their Redigo’s and former Italian Colony Eritrea which is currently unknown if they were armed

Speaking of Armaments, the Redigo has 6 wing mounted hardpoints which can mount unguided bombs, rocketpods and 50.cal gunpods

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SIAI S.211 (6.7): Built in Italy, operated by Ayiti (Haiti)

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The SIAI S.211 is an light attack aircraft built by SIAI-Marchetti during the late 1970’s. It was built as cheaply and simply as possible primarily as an export aircraft for countries that have a more limited budget. One of which was Haiti, the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere. The Philippines and Singapore also used the S.211 so there is a chance that the S.211 could appear in the Japanese and a Future South Korean TT respectively. Due to it’s simplistic nature it cannot equip any guided weaponry, only 50.cal & 20mm gunpods, unguided bombs and rockets on 5 hardpoints. The S.211 is also very slow aircraft that has a cruising speed of 650kph and a rip speed of 740kph

Because of that it would likely be placed at Tier IV around 6.7 due to it’s similarities to the BAC Strikemaster Mk.88 in the British TT in role and performance

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Haiti S211
p2304038879-3

Bombers: Self explanatory

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Caproni Ca.311 (Reserve):

Caproni Ca.133 (1.0):

Savoia-Marchetti SM.81(1.0):

Caproni Ca.313 (1.3):

Breda B.R 20DR (1.7):

Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 serie I & serie 8 (1.7): both implemented during the release of the German TT, later added to the Italian TT

Piaggio P.32.I (2.0):

Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 AS & bis/TM & bis/N (2.3): both implemented during the release of the German TT, later added to the Italian TT, SM.79 bis/N implemented during the release of the German TT hidden due to redundancy, reimplemented in the rework

CANT Z.506B serie 12, Z.1007 serie 3 & serie 5 (2.7 & 3.0):

Ju-88 A-4 (3.0):

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Italy operated some Ju-88 A-4’s, the Italians mainly used their domestically made bombs instead of their German counterparts, otherwise identical to the German and Finnish counterparts

Savoia-Marchetti SM.84 (3.3):

Piaggio P.108B serie 1 & serie 2 (3.3): Implemented during the release of the Italian Air TT

Savoia-Marchetti SM.82 & SM.82bis (3.7):

Caproni Ca.135bis/Alfa (3.7):

PV-2 Harpoon (3.7):

Baltimore V (3.7):

Caproni Ca.331 O.A (4.7):

CANT Z.511 (5.0):

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CANT Z.511 is a 4 engine floatplane designed by Filippo Zappata. Originally as a passenger aircraft intended for flights to South American nations like Brazil and Argentina. The original plans were cancelled and were converted into a Heavy Maritime Patrol Aircraft starting in September 1939. It first flew in October 1940 and went through testing from 1940 up to the Armistice in 1943

The Z.511 can carry up to 4000kg of bombs, 4 torpedoes, both manned and unmanned varieties and even a midget submarine. Primary weapon wise it can have 10 50.cal HMG’s or 10 20mm cannons in beam, belly positions and 2 top turrets

Two functional prototypes were built

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CANT-Z.511

Lines (Tier’s V-IX)

Foreign Fighters: Other than a few exceptions Self explanatory

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Vampire NF.54 (7.3):

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The Vampire NF.54 is the export night fighter variant of the Vampire, an aircraft model that the Italian airforce is familiar with (Italy was already operating the FB.52A). Italy obtained a 14 NF.54’s in 1952 alongside 3 NF.10’s originally intended for the Egyptian Airforce, the Italians used them until 1959 when they were replaced by domestically built F-86K Sabre Dogs

Here is a link to a suggestion for the NF.54 Vampire below
De Havilland DH113 Vampire NF MK54 : The Italian Big nose Vampire

Vampire FB.52A (7.7):

Venom FB.50 (G.80) (8.3):

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Italy tested two Venom FB.50’s as a possible replacement for their Vampires, it even went as far as talks for obtaining a license to build them in Italy by Fiat, getting the designation (G.80). This proposal was never accepted and Italy decided to develop their own light fighter in the Engine, eventually this light fighter will become the G.91 “Gina”

De Havilland Venom FB.50: The Italian Job

Cl.13 Mk.4 (8.7):

F-104G (10.3):

AV-8B Plus (11.7):

F-16B Blk 10 & F-16A ADV (12 & 12.3):

F-35A & B (14.3):

Other Italian Fighters and Attackers: Line for fighters built by other Italian firms, later transitions to a Ground Attack & Light Fighter Line

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Sagittario 2 (8.7):

VAK-191B (9.7): Joint Italo-German Venture

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After the Rejection and Inevitable cancellation of the G.95 as it lost in the NBMR-3b criteria, Fiat joined German aeronautics conglomerate VFW a merger of Focke-Wulf and Weserflug in the construction of the VAK-191B, contributing in the construction of the tail, wings and cockpit of the VAK-191B. The data taken from the G.95 testbed is incorporated into the VAK-191B with 3 prototypes being built. This venture wouldn’t last as Fiat would eventually opt out at the venture as it’s cancellation is inevitable due to the preference for the Kesterl, a VTOL aircraft that would eventually evolve into the Harrier Jump jet

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Note: this is a model to show what it would look like if it was accepted into service with the Italian airforce

AMX A-11A (10.3):

AMX A-11B (11.0):

M-346FT & M-346FA (12.3 & 12.7):

Domestic Fighters and Attackers: Fighters made by Italy’s two main manufacturers, Fiat and Aeritalia, both domestic designs and foreign designs, some attackers are in this line too

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G.80-3B & G.82 (7.3 & 7.7):

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The G.80 is Italy’s first attempt to produce a domestically built armed aircraft after the Second World War from scratch. development started in December 1951. The G.80 was intended for a few roles including a advanced trainer, ground attack, recce and light fighter aircraft. Testing of the G.80 started from 1951-1955. The G.82 was a further development of the G.80 to address the issues that the G.80 mainly the performance in the form of replacing the Rolls Royce Goblin engines that the G.80 was equipped with with a Rolls Royce Nene engine. The new engines did increased performance at the cost of increased fuel consumption, because of that the G.82 had additional fuelpods on the wingtips. Testing of the G.82 went from 1954-1959 when the project was canned. The G.82 also participated in NATO trials mainly to implement a more universal Trainer/Light Attack aircraft. It was not accepted in the program, losing to the T-33/AT-33 which Italy also operated

Armament wise it has 2 offensive weapons, 2 50.cal M2 Brownings or 2 Hispano 20mm’s (both offensive loadouts can be interchanged) with 2 more of either can be mounted as a gunpod. Both the G.80 & 82 has four hardpoints for bombs, fuelpods and rocket pods. Additional unguided rockets can also be mounted on the wings

In total 5 G.80’s (3 prototypes and 2 pre-production) and 6 G.82’s (2 prototype and 4 pre-production) were built with at least one of each surviving to this day

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G.80
g80-1
g80-5-889533296


G.82
g82-7-3752376026
62961faa08382cd6203fba89ab527fcc

Links to suggestions for both aircraft are located below
Fiat G80-3B
Fiat G82

G.91T-1 (8.0):

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A two seat combat trainer attacker variant of the G.91R-1, only has 2 50.cals instead of the 4 that the regular R-1 has, otherwise secondary ordinances are identical

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Here is a link to the G-91T-1 below
Fiat G91T

G.91 pre serie & R-1 (8.3 & 8.7): Implemented during the release of the Italian Air TT

G.91R-1B & R-3 (8.7):

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The R-1B is a limited upgrade package/production run of G.91R-1 with greatly strengthened wings, in effect allowing an extra hardpoint on the wing, greatly increasing the Ground Attack capabilities of the G.91. The G.91R-3 was tested by the Italians, functionally identical to the R-3 in the German TT

F-86K (9.0):

G.91Y (9.3):

F-104S (10.7):

F-104S AS.A (11.3):

Tornado ADV (12.0):

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The Tornado will receive the AIM-9L/i, essentially a AIM-9L with ICCRM from the AIM-9M, Italian Tornado’s were never armed with ARAAM’s but the mounting of them is still theoretically possible due to Italy obtaining all of their Tornado ADV’s from the RAF which they did use them in operational service

EF2000 Typhoon Tranche-1 (13.0):

EF2000 Typhoon Tranche-2 Blk 15 & DA7 (13.3):

EF2000 Typhoon Trance-3 & ISPA6 (13.7):

EF2000 Typhoon Trance-3A (14.0):

Domestic Attackers: Self explanatory

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M-311 (7.0):

MB.326B (7.0):

MB.326E & MB.339A (7.7 & 8.0):

MB.326G & MB.326K (L) (8.3 & 8.7):

MB.339C (10.0): AIM-9L’s are ommited due to balance reasons, can still use Magic 1’s and AIM-9J’s

T.345A (10.0): AIM-9L’s are ommited due to balance reasons

MB.339CD & K (10.3):

Foreign Strike and Domestic Interdiction: Self explanatory

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AT-33A (7.0):

F-84G (7.7):

F-84F (8.3):

Tornado IDS (Prototype) (10.7):

Tornado IDS (1995) & IT ECR (11.3 & 11.7):

Tornado A-200C (12.0):

Premiums, Event and Squadron: Self explanatory

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Piaggio P.16 (1.3 - Premium):

Breda Ba-75 (1.3 - Event):

Caproni Ca.165 (1.3 - Premium):

Dornier Kb-1 (1.3 - Premium): Captured from the Yugoslavs

Caproni Ca.355 “Tuffo” (1.7 - Event):

SIM-XIV-H (1.0 - Naval Battles Exclusive aircraft): Captured from the Yugoslavs

CR-42CN (1.3 - Premium/Gift):

CR-32bis (1.7 - Premium):

SM-79 serie 4 (1.7 - Event):

G.50 MM334 (2.0 - Premium/Pre order):

FC.20ter (2.3 - Event):

Caproni Vizzola F-4 (2.3 - Premium):

Ro.57 Quadriarma (2.7 - Event):

Caproni Ca.335 (2.7 - Premium):

P-38G (3.0 - Premium): One captured from the USAF

Re.2000 G.A “Littorio” (2.3 - Naval Battles Exclusive aircraft):

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This is a variant of the Re.2000 intended to be launched out of a battleship more specifically the Littorio class Battleship, the Roma can launch 2 while the other Littorio’s can only fire the one. In order to make it launch out of a catapult, the landing gear is ommitied. Also the landing gear is useless when being put back on a battleship for very obvious reasons

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re.2000_c_183

Re.2001 2nd gruppo (2.3 - Premium/Pre order):

Piaggio P.150 (2.3 - Squadron):

C.202D (2.7 Event):

Re.2001 G/V (3.3 Event):

Spitfire LF Mk.Vb trop (3.3 Premium):

Baltimore IV (3.7 Premium):

F-51D-20 (4.7 Premium):

Caproni Ca.331 CN (Zeta) (4.3 Premium):

Ambrosini SAI SS.4 (4.7 Event):

G.55S (5.0 Premium/Pre Order):

B-24D (5.7 Premium): One captured from the USAF

MB-339X (8.0 Premium/Pre Order):

MB.326K (E) (8.3 Event):

RF-84F (8.0 Premium):

G.91R-4 (9.0 Premium):

Ariete (9.3 Premium/Pre Order):

G.91R-3 Força Aérea Portuguesa (FAP) (9.0 Squadron):

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The main difference between the TT R-3 & the Portugese R-3 is that Portugal modified them to carry AIM-9B’s, otherwise identical to other G.91R-3’s

F-104G Sparrow Prototype/Testbed (10.7 Premium/Pre Order):

MB.339CE (10.7 Premium):

MB.339B (10.3 Squadron):

F-104S Aggioranto (11.0 Squadron):

AXM-ATA (10.7 Premium/Pre Order): Built in & Operated by Italy and Brazil, Originally intended for the Venezuelan Air Force

EF2000 Typhoon IPA2 (13.3 Squadron):

EF2000 Typhoon DA-3 (13.0 Event):

EF2000 Typhoon Tranche-2 Blk 8 (13.3 Premium/Pre-order):

Yakovlev Aermacchi Yak-130D (12.0 Squadron):

Hidden: Vehicles that are hidden due to being moved to another TT (either an existing or future TT), Note: people who already have these vehicles will still keep them and people who started to research them can finish them off

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He-112 B1/U1: Moved to Hungarian and Romanian TT’s

IAR-81C: Moved to the Romanian TT

SM-79B: Moved to Argentine and Romanian TT’s

Hs 129 B-2: Moved to Romanian TT

Bf 110 G-4: Moved to Hungarian TT

Bf 109 F-4: Moved to Hungarian and Romanian TT’s

Bf 109 G-2: Moved to Hungarian and Romanian TT’s

G.91YS: Moved to the Swiss/Alpine TT since it was intended for the Swiss Airforce not the Italian Air Force

F-104S TAF: Moved to the Turkish TT

Possible Additions:

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  • CANT Z.1018 series
  • Various Typhoon prototypes and test vehicles including the ISPA-2 (Premium/Preorder), ISPA-4 (Event)
  • S-2A Tracker
  • Breguet Br.1150
  • Caproni-Vizzola C.22 Ventura

Unfinished/Incomplete Prototypes:

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  • Caproni Campini Ca.183bis: One incomplete prototype
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  • AUSA/AUT MB.902: One wooden mockup built, one functional prototype completed, never flew under it’s own weight
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  • Fiat G.95: Fiat’s proposal for a NATO’s specification for a VTOL military aircraft with 6 variants planned (first five being subsonic while the sixth being supersonic), this specification also includes the Mirage VTOL prototypes, the VAK-191B, and the Kestrel which the lessons learned from the Kestrel eventually become the ubiquitous Harrier family. Originally it was supposed to be an evolution of the G.91Y by modifying it for VTOL purposes. A test bed was built for gathering data based on the 4th proposal. The project was ultimately cancelled though data collected from the G.95 testbed were later incorporated into the VAK-191B, (Fiat built the cockpit, wings and tail of the WAK-191B while VFW built the fuselage section). Wooden Mockups were also built for the G.95
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g95-4

Proposed vehicles and proposed variants of existing vehicles:

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  • CANT Z.511 (R-2600)
  • Fiat G.84: Proposed variant of the G.80/82 with a Allison J35 engine
  • Fiat G.91YT
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I requested a change from T-346A to M-346FT because better T-346A and feature similar to M-346FA but none Grifo-346 fire control radar & MRAAM

Tornado ADV up to 12.0 after armed AIM-9L/i, add BVR MRAAM AIM-120B AMRAAM on AV-8B Plus and expand BR to 12.3

F-104S ASA-M located to early rank 8 and fill gap between F-104S ASA & Tornado ADV

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I will do said changes for the first two but unfortunately i’ll not be adding the F-104S ASA-M due to that variant only weapons are AAM’s [AIM-9L’s, AIM-7’s and Aspides], it is impossible to properly balance vehicles with AAM’s as it’s only armament

Italy never equipped their Tornado ADVs with AMRAAM like Britain did with their Tornado F3s (I think). They were replaced by their leased F-16As which were a stopgap until Typhoon. Aim-9L/i though could still come for an upgrade for them though, but probably only 11.7

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I think he mentioned it because it is still theoretically possible to mount them since all of Italy’s Tornado ADV’s were all from the Royal Air Force.

I’m guessing that the AIM-9L/i is a analogue to the AIM-9M or later AIM-9?

Aim-9M were not heavily exported, the UK was one of a few nations it was exported too.

Aim-9L/I is a German modification of the Aim-9L with an IRCCM seeker similar to that of the Aim-9M (some reports suggests it was actually a little better than Aim-9M) but the rest of the missile is the same as Aim-9L

So Aim-9L/I in game would probably be a C&P of the Aim-9M seeker but on the Aim-9L body (so smokey trail)

For the Tornado F3 as well, Aim-9L/I I think would be the more historically accurate option for their upgrade as Aim-9Ms had some major compatibility problems with the Tornado F3 due to the modified rails Britain used. Kept breaking the Aim-9Ms.

as for the AMRAAM, its possibe… though they havent followed that same logic with the other Tornados yet, for example PGMs for the British Tornado but not German and Italian versions and I think the Tornado Gr1 is getting BOL soon. So they may not follow that logic with the Tornado ADVs as well.

Edit: Just had another thought, Tornado F3s were upgraded to handle AMRAAM (especially later upgrades with Data-link which you would 100% want otherwise you are basically firing SARHs). I think Italy returned their ADVs and replaced them with F-16s instead of getting that upgrade.

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So here is what i’m going to do for aircraft that are already added

for aircraft that is already implemented, if they are missing external weapon loadouts, i’ll mention them in the tab where it would normally be used to give a brief overview of the aircraft

The folder that You created with Eurofighter is alright, but it should have the normal production eurofighter not the various units that I suggested. Those units were suggested because they had unique features and theyr main role was to be premiums,event or squadron. Now, I will ask to apply the following changes:

Euroighter DA3 13.0

Folder with
Eurofighter Trance 1 13.0
Eurofighter Trance 2 13.3
Eurofighter Trance 3 13.7

You can include the others units like ispa6 and da7 in the premium branch as event/squad or prem
also were is the F35A?
Regarding the Tornados, the base and upgraded should be foldered with the normal and upgraded tornado ids

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I strongly disagree here. this aircraft was never adopted and it was only used by the Italian air force therefore it’s only place is in the Italian tt.

ATA was never created it was just a project

The F-35A not being in the proposal is a error on my part, both will be added in the TT (the F-35A will be more Air-Superiority focused while the F-35B will be more Multirole/Ground Attack focused)

In the context of the Eurofighters, you are also correct in that the DA’S, IPA’s and ISPA’s are all prototypes/test beds, some will still be in the TT as gap fillers but the rest will all be Premium, Event or Squad vehicles but not immediately for all of them. The Tranche 1, 2 Blk-15, 3 & 3A are also added as TT vehicles, the Tranche-2 Blk-8 is added as a premium

Finally the Tornado IDS (1995) and A-200C won’t be in a folder together however the IDS (1995) and IT ECR will be folder in together now

AMX ATA was never created it was just a project

Do you have any substitutes to replace it like any Italian testbeds of the AMX for example

I suggest adding C.201 as rank 2 premium/event.

This was an attempt at improvement of C.200 by taking it more aerodynamic and smooth. They eliminate hump behind engine, enclosed cockpit. This increased speed(a little) and reduced drag(better energy retention)

mc201_02

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I was looking at any potential weapon loads to expand the existing Italian Bombers and i found this

0392-02-2-4

SM.79 with 2 450kg torpedos

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Also, additional bombs for early fighters, CR.32/42’s, G.50’s, C.200’s were after being repleced in frontal use by newer machines used as attack aircraft droping 50kg,100kg and heavier bombs.

Also Sispre C-7 would be much needed addition to early Jets

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I would like to see this more than a subtree, its a shame because Italy really has quite alot of aircraft still to be added

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My beloved…

If this is referring to the 339CB - as in, the one only ever operated by the RNZAF - there’s a very, very short list of stores that were actually able to be used with it, and Sidewinders weren’t on that list (nor was the Magic).

No it is referring to this

Aermacchi kept a couple of the earlier C models for demonstrators and sales pitches for foreign buyers and the Italian Airforce. The only export MB.339 present is the MB.339CE which is a MB.339CD for the Eritrean Airforce.

Update: The G.95 is moved to the “Unfinished prototype” section due to components for the G.95 was built such as the tail and wings, a testbed for it was also built so modeling it is possible

New vehicle:

VAK-191B (located on the “Other Italian Fighters and Attackers” Line): Fiat had some involvement in the development in the VAK-191B alongside VFW, the VAK-191B also incorporated the wings and tail from the cancelled G.95