I feel like this has gone off topic. Lets keep it to Challenger 2 and more importantly, the game.
At this point, challenger 2 is like gum on the bottom of Gaijin’s shoe. they are trying to get it out but its just making it worse. The ERA is next to useless against most chemical munitions you will face at the BR it has it, I.E. Vikurs, and BMP-2m missiles etc. that can easily defeat the 400mm protection; the armour hasn’t changed much and the weak spots are still the exact same and the speed has been nerfed on the Challenger 3 TD - Its unlikely it will ever get sorted, considering there are issues with it currently that have been bug reported since the introduction of the first Challenger 2, that still haven’t been fixed, primarily the turning. Its still sluggish to the point that turning at speed will bring you to a complete stop (this shouldn’t happen) - but until they add some form of pseudo regen steering, its unlikely it will be. The vehicle (compared to other top tier MBT’s) is far too situational. It cant brawl, it can barely hull down ((considering a leopard 2, t80 and abrams, can hull down far better as their weakspots arnt on the turret.)) as you reveal your weak spots when you do so; and for the most part you are too slow to get to advantageous postions. The only exception to that is the 2E. I guess Gaijin are just at a point where they look at the challenger 2 as a “jack of all trades but a master of none” while every other tank around it is a master at some.
I’m going to be honest, it has done. Partly to blame is Gaijin, if they’d showed a willingness to fix and listen to bug reports and not just randomly deny them or put them on hold for years on end, then we wouldn’t be at the stage where people have just given up on this tank.
Unfortunately too close to the truth. Challenger 2 has left behind in the meta, only 2nd to the Ariete. One thing I will say is that, at least the Ariete has speed going for it, where Chally 2 doesn’t have that. Challenger 2 weighs 75 tons in game. 75 tons of what? cause it cant be armour, it has none xD
Challenger 3 also has the problem where, because of the weak spot being the exact same as challenger 2, except now it has ammo stowage in the back of the turret; getting shot on the right side ((your left side)) of the breach, means immediate ammo cook off, with no blow out pannels, meaning getting instantly destroyed. any skilled player knowing they are shooting a challenger will aim there, so hulling down with chally 3td is actually worse than chally 2 aswell. so it just means that the Challenger 3 TD is actually a downgrade when it comes to the already lackluster survivability.
Gaijin making each nations tank unique and interesting from each other? Nah! While being able to compete against each other?
Not allowed.
Gaijin wasting development time on 80% of the MBTs in the game for them to be utter trash. vehemently denying any and all attempts at making them authentic and decent.
This was always my issue, when they started to add newer tanks.
We had Cheiftain Mk10 so slow but its turret armour and fire power made it great. Russia at the time had the T-64A
USA Had the MBT 70 . There was balance.
Now to restore balance I genuinely believe we need to remove the best performing rounds from the top tanks. Leopard 2A7 should only have DM33 (yes sounds crazy) but it doesn’t NEED DM53 to still be an incredible tank.
This would again restore balance as Leopards/T-80s could not just LOL pen CR2, Leclerc from 1.5km away.
You cant have a fully realistic game and have balance concessions need to be made.
Currently Britain are playing an FPS game with a Lee Enfield while the other nations run around with an assault rifle.
must be a lot of tea and crumpets. i genuinely don’t understand where Gaijin have got their metrics from. the thing weighs more than any nearly any other tank in the game, and yet has less armor than most.
There’s just a lot of weirdness going around that I genuinely don’t understand when it comes to challenger 2 in the game… Weight VS Armor is one of them and how the tank weighs SO MUCH yet has so little armour in comparison to its weight; then when someone made a claim that the Challenger 3 TD should have spawl liner, the Gaijin response was along the lines of “well the video’s we have of its manufacture didn’t show any inside the turret.” - that alone is questionable IMO, because any “video’s” of the manufacture of a prototype “next generation” MBT would/should be classified to heck and back, yet they claim they have evidence as to why it shouldn’t have it?.. its just fishy.
It’s not Just Challenger 2 that hasn’t been fixed, or given a temp fix for a very very long time. Look at the Stormer HMV and the state it is in. its “usable” sometimes; but the missiles still phase through aircraft like they aren’t even there, and a lot of helicopters still get lock alerts despite the fact the missiles are “visual locking” meaning it should give no warning.
But back to challenger, I feel like gaijin have given up on it; and if they haven’t then they have it exactly where they want it; IE, at the bottom of the food chain for the German. Russian and Sweden mains to eat their fill.
When you compare it to the Leopard 2a6 there’s not a single thing Challenger does, that is better or on par to the Leopard; but its BR’d the same. Challenger 2 is slower, worse armour, bigger weak spots, worse crew survivability, worse round, and in fact the ONLY thing challenger 2 has over the Leopard is its gunner thermals being better, but again; it doesn’t get commander thermals meaning that is worse too. Hulling down is the ONLY playstyle it fits, and it can’t even do that well, because a well aimed roof shot (even with APFSDS) will destroy you, or being shot in the breach will do the same as the breach doesn’t eat the spawl at all unlike other tanks at its BR. Meanwhile, Leopard can hull down without the worry of APFSDS penning the roof, if it gets shot in the breach, there is a high chance the breach will eat the shot meaning you can reverse and repair, and because you are fast, you can get into that hull down position before anyone else and be effective. Challenger 2 doesn’t have any of that sadly. All the weight and the disadvantages that come with it and none of the armour to support it.
but the problem is that its all subjective. Gaijin have already admitted that the armour values are all made up for top tier MBT’s because all those values are classified; so why do they think its acceptable to make those made up values SO low? if the value is made up anyway, why cant they increase it to be more competitive with the tanks its compressed into?
the sad reality of it. it makes me worried for the so called light tank tree coming; because they could really mess us over with that. TO THIS DAY I think that the Scimitar would have been a better fit than the Fox; It was tried, tested and used vastly more if I am correct; but the Fox ((though i like its addition)) feels more obscure and more like it should have been a premium/event vehicle and the Scimitar should have been TT. Rather than Desert Warrior, the Warrior 40mm CTAS would have been a better addition, as Desert Warrior is just a worse Bradley m3a3 at the same BR ((basically)).
I used to think it was benign neglect but now I see they are intentionally messing with us.
Hopefully one day, the challenger 2 will have the armour to be a great brawler. Not invincible, but powerful from the front. like how the T-80’s are for Russia. Britain almost ALWAYS goes against Russia in the game, so it would be a good balance to have both sides with a nation that can brawl effectively in my opinion. I admit that yes, it should be able to hull down and snipe, but the T-80’s are again; just as good at that, as they are at brawling; so why cant challenger 2 be the T-80 of the west?
I’m sorry but they can’t seriously believe we made precisely no progress and literally strapped an extra couple of tonnes of nothingness for the TES? Seriously?
Also, on your point with the CR3TD, my current (internal) argument is that I think it should have 1500hp still, on the basis that before the House of Parliament question came back with 1200hp engines, the CR3 was using a 1500hp powerpack, and various CR3 hulls (CR2s at the time going through HAAIP) had already been upgraded when QRH (British Army unit) openly stated CR3 would use 1500hp.
So either Gaijin wants to model the production CR3 as we know it, in which case, blowout panels, even better turret armour, addon hull armour, and all the other bells and whistles, or we aren’t, in which case I’ll take my 1500hp engine thanks.
yeah, I’m almost certain that guy who said “it has a 1300hp engine” was talking about the PRODUCTION challenger 3, not the Test Demonstrator (TD) which gaijin have made clear is what we have in game, even as far as calling it the TD; but gaijin took his word for it. Made a change on the TD that was men’t for the Production challenger 3. “word of mouth” is their requirement for a nerf, but a 3000 word essay for a buff to be “not a bug”.