For SPAAs, A-10A Early should be much harder to counter than Su-25 if you use those TV guided missiles in a right way.
Unguided stuff like S-25O is effective as long as there’s no SPAAs around, but this goes for basically anything as well. Guided stuff is also heavily gimped thanks to it’s godawful “optics”, so even if you want to use laser guided munitions you’ll be well within range of common SPAAs.
So yeah, if you know your enemies don’t have active SPAA spawning Su-25K might be better, but if that’s not the case, A-10A should be better.
If you fly far and high enough, while also spamming countermeasures vs flarakrad, he might easily lose track of all your missiles. It might not even see you comming at all because of clouds and radar elevation angles.
Once pantsir locks one target, he can clearly see all of the other air targets in 90’ sector. He will have enough time to take out whole first salvo before you can do another attack.
Every spaa is done in this situation. So you basicly saying, that I should counter one 120 SP pantsit with two 700-900 SP jets? Seems legit.
Works only against extremely bad players on pantsir. If you launching 120 before even starting to look for S1 - you only played against people who cant hit their mouth with a spoon of soup.
I only can see few ground kills on tornado, which is playing 99% games with pantsir in team. And you barely hit 1 K/D.
I would say, for the su-25 the main treat is swedish CV9040 series. You cant really react if its starts shooting at you from 3-4 km. I dont really consider missile spaas when I play su-25K unless I have flares.
In general, I can see your point here. But this topic focuses on the top-tier balance.
Well if you cant counter 1 pantsir on F16 maybe you shouldnt waste that sp cost on it.
Why the f you want to track those missiles on flakbus, having only 2 missiles on it ready, shooting em is last option, and you can see it firing missiles just by looking at that target. Still pop a smoke, they lose lock. And yes, even pantsir loses lock on main target if there is lot of sht in the sky near main target, ot something flyes right beetween the line of sight on it.
No matter how much you try to say pantsir is godtier ultimate aa, it is that only when cas players are completely useless and cant do nothing than fly straight.
In current state, USSR cas is not in top 4. (USA, SWEDEN,ITALY & FRANCE)
USSR AA is best , but still not untouchable.
It all depends situation, if enemy got 2 or 3 air , I rather smack those 120’s away , and after air is more clear I take in that pantsir. Enemy air is bigger threat in top tier vs pantsir.
At least it helps team a lot more, getting rid of their cas vs pantsir.
Correct.
As I stated above, nerfing Pantsir would be a step in the wrong direction, at least in my opinion. We need more Pantsir-like AAs, not less. AAs need to be effective but currently many are outranged by properly used CAS, which is something that should be avoided.
This is a problem that’s plaguing most of higher tiers.
I never said that.
Im not trying. Im making statements and even made some sort of pictures to explain the problem. You ar at the other hand trying to prove me wrong because “every spaa is mortal, so its not a big deal”
The problem is USSR CAS is untouchable from the ground.
I repeat. If you have S1 who lets you first of all throw your missiles before trying to dive to the ground, he is 0.3 K/B bot.
Youre trying to say, that USSR cas is not even in top 4 (lol). Meanwhile you have following stats:
- AV-8B Plus (one of the best cas nation) - 1 K/D
- F-16C bl.50 (one of the best cas nation) - 2 K/D
- Su-25SM3 (not even top 4 cas nation) - 3+ K/D
Can you please explain this miracle to me?
Yep. This is also a good solution as well. As I wrote in first post - difficulty level of cas should be equal for different nations.
Simple, I grinded all those jets in ARB , not in GRB and not shooting bot grounds in there.
25SM is my oldest vehicle, ( when it was mean shit in 11.7) av8 i rarely use in ground, and I suck in it in ARB I rather use A10C, until I got F16C. Yes, I grinded A10C before F16 :D
And F16 is new toy in armament , and kd raising by game to game in ground in there.
Nothing more miracle in there.
How long it takes you to swap radar mode, and spam those 120’s. ( and start turning away on same time)
I agree with you that the current situation is complete BS. Nevertheless I don’t agree with your last points:
Back when the Tunguska was nerfed, F16s were ruling the skies in WT and Russia had barely any air to ground weaponry outside of Kh29Ts and the like. Therefore giving Russia a really good SPAA made perfect sense. (Yes I know there are other nations with the same issues, which haven’t been resolved yet - Italy for example). The major problems we have now, arose when Russia also received the Kh38s.
Since we are still playing GROUND RB it would only seem logical to buff current SAM platforms and to add new ones (Patriot from teaser). I am not calling for a ground only mode (even though more gamemode selection would be nice).
As mentioned before I don’t like this idea. Gaijin could also increase the SP cost of the ADATS again. In essence its more useful and versatile than any other SPAA.
I have said it before and I will say it again. Make playing SPAA more attractive and lucrative. Give shot down munitions an RP and SL reward. Since you will be able to reload your missiles and rounds from the safety of your hiding spot next patch, this would be the perfect time to add such a feature - BUFF SPAA, give them a proper reason to exist.
I am not disagreeing with you calling out the imbalance but I am not completely satisfied with your ideas.
Yeah, so this is why you have almost equal amount of bots killed per battle as players in arb
Anyway you have much better K/D on SM3 even so you saying its your oldest vehicle, which means you were less confident in cas as well. And your newer toy which is F-16 has much worse K/D even so its one of your latest vehicles.
Im sorry, but your own statistics only proves my point.
Well you are trying to suggest, that pantsir should have similiar spawn cost , like jets what can dominate USSR, teams completely if CAS player has even slightest brainfunction.
It is shame, that USA has one of worst AA’s ever, and trying to defeat anything flying from ground with them is near useless on top tier, also same goes on israel and italy. (exluding spikes against helos what is ridicilous op)
Most times, looking how people fly after spawning is just amusing, no matter using Flakbus or pantsir, just straight down flying towards AA , and not even moving a bit.
Ok, maybe now we can wonder how in your stats someone is crying so much on pantsir or 38’s. Maybe those shouldnt be any issue on that point anymore?
Wow, does it show all my air vehicles in there, or just F16, or av8 or sm3. :D
Didnt think so.
This is exactly why this post was created. Im just trying to find an options to resolve this issue and bring more attention towrds it. Its great if you have other ideas.
Tunguska, from my perspective, was perfectly balanced. It was worse in maximum range and missile speed, but it was much better up close because of cannons. 2s6 was also a far superior to other spaas, when it was originally introduced (this is what I heard, havnt played back in those days, so I cant be certain about this last part).
Also Kh-29 was extremely good, while mavericks were struggling to kill anything at all.
Cant agree with that. It might be usefull against tanks, but I dont even remember when I was killed by adats the last time, while playing cas.
Im afraid, this wont work as intended, because in case of fighting top-tier USSR cas you can only expect trying to intercept missiles. You wont get eve a chanse to attack enemy plane if it knows your launch range. This is why I proposed this kind of changes in order to fix this.
What exactly do you mean?
Okay, lets make it clear. Answer to the following question, please. What is easier:
- to kill tanks ans spaas from distance, where it literally cant touch you
- to kill tanks and spaas while constantly being in the range of spaa and also not being able to gain altitude for better fox-3 launches and stay pinned down, where your missiles would lose half of their energy, trying ascend for high altitude enemy fighter
The Tunguska as many other vehicles like the Ka50 were completely broken when they were added. Hell the 2S6 was the very first and best SAM up until the Pantsir. In the update that introduced the Pantsir, the 2S6 got heavily nerfed. Its huge ammo rack was added and missile G load was massively decreased a whole 4 years after its addition.
Its missiles have been rebuffed to a near before-nerf standard though.
Yes the Kh29s pack a larger punch but what counts for gaijin is “potential” kills. 6 > 2
We know gaijin, they make the dumbest decisions. I mean the ADATS only recently got its role reassigned from a TD to an SPAA. If gaijin were to adjust the spawn cost of the Pantsir, you can bet your pretty penny gaijin will do the same o the ADATS.
I just wish SPAAs have their place ingame. Right now most of them are just a waste of time and resources. Plus it would give stuff like CRAMs a place in the game, whereas it would just be a slight upgrade to the M163 now.
*Note: The Tunguska was the first and ONLY SAM in its patch 1.87
So cause USSR CAS is as easy to play as as NATO CAS, you issued a challenge…
95YA6 does not have a 20km range against jet CAS, it’s ~13km.
Soviet’s best SPAA*, no where close to the best.
AlvisWisla being as vague as possible to get other people to talk so he can say no to everything. As per usual
pre nerfed tunguska was.
Trying to say, that is something what NATO cas cant do?
Pantsirs hit % drops quite a lot when flying on range of mavericks , yes it may shoot your mavericks and waste missiles in there.
Why you have to fly straight on that pantsir , why you cant just spawn, smack fox3’s and take heading back to base and gain altitude more in there example?