Challange for USSR CAS

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
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Okay, so rescently, one of the devblogs brought up an interesting point.

Im talking about this one.

[Development] Tornado GR.4: Tenacious Tonka - News - War Thunder

Its about Tornado GR.4

Interesting statement been maid during explanation of limited brimstone mechanics:

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Lets look closer to this exact part:

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So, according to Gaijin, CAS munitions have to provide a challenge for the carrier. And one of the points of this challenge is “not being able to operate outside of the range of any anti-air system in the game”

Lets take a closer look at USSR air-to-ground munitions from the top-tier battles - Kh-38MT and Kh-38ML. Both of those can be easily intercepted while being launched from their maximum range only by Pantsir-S1. But worry not! Fortunately, this spaa belongs to exactly the same nation! So this means, Kh-38 carriers cant be outranged by spaas at all.

And I don’t even take into account the characteristics of these missiles compared to their analogues in other nations TT.

So this is how challenge for USSR players looks like:

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  • 3-8 km of completely safe zone, where jet phisically cant be even touched from the ground

From the other hand, this is how CAS and SEAD looks like from basically any other nation perspective, which was unlucky enough to get in to opposite team:

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  • You literally always under Pantsirs attack. Some jets cant even dive to the ground and not being shot after spawn.

Im struggling to have a challenge on my Su-25SM3 and will probably struggle even more after Su-34 release.

My suggestion for bringing back the challenge for USSR top-tier CAS:

  • Change current Pantsir-S1 to Roman spaa which used 9М335 missile with 12km range. It would perfectly fit in to current meta for other nations.
  • Equalise SP cost of S1 to jets its fighting against - bring it to 700-900 points. Player shouldnt be able to spawn such an outstanding vehicle, which makes all other teams aircrafts hug the ground, after S1 player just lost two tanks without earning any SP at all.
  • Change USSR planes loadout and remove Kh-38 missiles, so they have to enter enemy air defence zone in order to lock ground targets.

Feel free to choose one of the following suggestions or submit your own down below. Top tier is unplayable right now for CAS players, because they have to deal with 3-8 Pantsirs every game theyre in opposite team. And if you only playing tanks, you just getting smashed by USSR CAS. This is unfair and have to be changed.

Top-tier is supposed to be the most balanced place, because its presented as end of the grind reward, where you never getting uptiered over and over again.

To summarize, this is my point on current situation:

  • Either everyone should be able to use cas in safe zone and outrange spaas
  • Either everyone should use cas in spaas kill zone

Without exception like USSR right now.

Please note:
This topic is dedicated to 12.0+ GRB gameplay, also known as top-tier ground realistic battles. If you want to discuss something at lower BR, please make another one.

43 Likes
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I couldnt agree more, though withwise to that statement about Brimstones I think they were talking purely about “mode 3” operation with the Brimstones.

Which looks like this:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoGKPMmdGDk

Essentially, the GR4 would never have to pop up above the trees to fire as it wouldnt require line of sight. Heck, could even be fired over a hill or something. Now this is a rubbish excuse for the Brimstone because “Mode 2” operation requires LOBL and would function much like KH-38s and AGM-65s do currently, so they could have restricted it to that mode instead and not just “mode 1”, but amyway.

So take that with a pinch of salt. But overall… Yeah… Its kinda crazy they started worrying about A2G balance for an aircraft that stands no chance vs CAP, but didnt even consider it on 2 of the best multirole aircraft in game (as of the next update) the F-15E and Su-34

8 Likes
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Exactly.

Its not that important. Ofc it would be terrible idea to put such an overpowered mechanics in game. But the key thing is I cant realy understand, how comes one nation just placing lock-on marks on tanks from safe distance not even bothering about sams, while other ones have to fight for their lives with inferior to Kh-38 missiles.

4 Likes
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Yeah. I do agree.

Su-25SM3 (and now Su-34) can kill a ADATS with ease and the ADATS wll never get a shot oppotunity. All it can do is hide and pray. (Now this doesnt really change much when talking about AGM-65 either, though those nations arent protected by Pantsir normally)

The Tornado Gr4 with Brimstones will likely have to enter within about 14km of the target before they will be in range (with the version we last saw on the dev server) The Pantsir will begin firing at the Tornado Gr4 when it is about 16km away.

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Wow, what an incredible post! Couldn’t agree more – USSR always dominates! It’s amazing how they keep winning every battle and claiming victory.

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Its worse missile then maverick in game. Should I also mention, you will never play with S1 in team? Its like Germany+USSR+Sweden vs everything else 95% of the time.

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Britian seems to get paired with the USSR semi reguarly, but yeah, its more often the US

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The USSR has the 3rd lowest WR in top tier ground

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If youre speaking of this website:

Spoiler

https://wt.controlnet.space/

Its not representative and cant be considered as a source.

We dont have accurate stats, unfortunately.

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Tell me who is first please?

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Italy. This is all you need to know about this site.

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There is italy in wt? Jk

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I see Hungary in GRB but no Italy :P

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You should eat if you hungri :(

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Skills issue on their side tbh when they got everything they need in their line up
still can’t handle some Leopard

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It’s like you always find a vehicle carrying 2 Kh-38 in every match and not some random jet fighter with 6 AGM-65D.

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that’s absolutely outside of the theme, AGM-65D’s are annoying but they are within the range of the pantsir S1 like he already stated and not only that but the KH-38ML has more range than the AGM65D

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Gaijin doesnt care, welcome to yet another contradiction.

The Russian tech tree makes them a lot of money, its unnecessarily good in certain areas and times.

US air makes them a lot of money, its also unnecessarily good, albeit historically so.

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for true balance , change pantsir-s1 to roman spaa , remove kh38MTs , remove all targeting pods in the game or just remove thermals in them(for fixed wing aircraft) . su25sm3 is useless the second you spawn in a fighter i think gaijin wants people to spend more money and grind air tt cus ground vehicles are not enough to counter it. pantsirs are easy to bully but its main advantage is that it is the only spaa that can reliably intercept other atgms. ussr teams gets the best missiles while getting some of the worst platforms to launch them (bad fm , bad camera fov , bad flight performance , low Counter measures , bad radar (except mig29smt)). while nato teams get decent air to ground ordinance with the best platforms to launch them (good flight model , good targeting pods - much much better than anything in ussr team unless gaijin adds sapsan or some other targeting pod to ussr , good radar , much more CMs , better a2a missiles for grb). or gaijin can simply add targeting pods to su27sm/mig29smt and remove kh38ts.

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The new mirage and the new tonado are completely dead on arrival