CAS second spawn multiplier reduction

[QTip_44]

@Get_HeshED

Yak-9k is 5.0, not 4.0.

You could bring up Yak-9T instead with the 37mm, but it’s not very good.

Online WIKI does not show the separate GRB rating - odd. As for the Yak 9T, it was designed for anti-tank role so in the hands of a skilled pilot it’s apt rounds should have no problem destroying most tanks at that BR.

Also, don’t forget German 2-engine strikers that are obviously not as maneuverable as fighters, but are decent at bombing tanks … BF110 with 2x500lb bombs and 20mm cannons that can rip softer targets, or even the Me410.

Point is, there are more than a few anti-ground planes in that BR range, and they all don’t have to be as good in the air as fighters to do damage. If you are assuming one side has a CAP, you have to assume the other side does as well. While CAP are fighting the CAS will be bombing.

[Get_HeshED]

@QTip_44

As for the Yak 9T, it was designed for anti-tank role so in the hands of a skilled pilot it’s apt rounds should have no problem destroying most tanks at that BR.

It’s simply not the case. Although the gun itself can penetrate most tanks of this BR, since the shells are solid shot the damage is lacking and due to low accuracy it’s hard to reliably kill most not open topped targets. Low ammo count makes it even worse since you need much more shells than Yak-9k to score a kill, while the ammo count is very similar. This is the biggest reason why ITP (M-1) is a viable CAS, while Yak-9T is not.

@QTip_44

Also, don’t forget German 2-engine strikers that are obviously not as maneuverable as fighters, but are decent at bombing tanks … BF110 with 2x500lb bombs and 20mm cannons that can rip softer targets, or even the Me410.

Well sure, but this is precisely the point. Most viable CAS planes within this BR range are things like IL-2 or BF-110. Not like F4U-4B, Yak9K/UT or alike.

@QTip_44

Point is, there are more than a few anti-ground planes in that BR range, and they all don’t have to be as good in the air as fighters to do damage. If you are assuming one side has a CAP, you have to assume the other side does as well. While CAP are fighting the CAS will be bombing.

I’ve never said these planes are bad. But it’s undeniable that they are, in fact much less effective than fighter-CAS which is by far the most effective type of planes in the game. Your team may or may not have CAP. WIth fighter-CAS you don’t really care. You just go in, get out some of your weaponry and you are ready to engage enemy CAP or become one yourself. Planes like aforementioned Bf110 will never get even close to the effectiveness of proper fighter-CAS aircraft, thus CAS as a whole within 2.3-4.0 range is noticeably weaker than in 4.3 - 7.3 range.

[Beeschurger]

@QTip_44

Online WIKI does not show the separate GRB rating - odd.

[GGK_Brian]

@Pangolin_Fan

And terrible flight performance.

As usual from you horrible take. F6F clean has a good fight performance, the main issue is the climbrate, which doesn’t matter as in ground RB, if you keep speed alt and awareness (which you should to be effectiv in CAS anyway) only dedicated light fighter like 109, spit, yak will have a change of taking you out, and you can offer a decent fight if you spot them early enough.

Against every other 3.0-3.7 CAS, you dunk on them hard and played correctly they have no chance.

@Pangolin_Fan

The time it takes you to get to the battlefield after spawning is t the issue, but rather how quickly you can get SP to spawn CAS.

Also, it unequally screws over slower planes whilst having no real effect on planes like Yak-9K and F4U-4B.

The reason time is import is simple, change in the battlefield. with airspawn, you can reach the combat zone as fast as 1 minutes. Forcing plane to spawn in airfield would allow enemy to reposition making it ever so slightly easier to avoid a bomb from the guy you just killed.

Further as pointed out by the guy you were responding to, It “balances” out different payload, ie:
Do I get 2 bomb and take off fast to reach the battlefield OR do I take a big load and take more time.

It gives more change for the enemy/friendly CAP to intercept CAS before them manage to drop, which is my main issue with CAS below 7.0. You are guaranteed a kill, because you spawn close enough and high enough to instantly dive and reach high speed, making any CAP playing fair unable to kill you except in a head-on unless you camp the CAS spawn and instantly drop on them (which I find is anti-fair play).

Forcing CAS to actually think:

• Will the sky be clear enough by the time I get here ?
• Where and how will the ground situation evolve / Would I be more efficient spawing in medium/light/heavy?
• Should I take a lighter payload to climb faster?
• Should I taken a alternative, longer route to avoid CAP?

Basically, I want to force CAS to have to think as much as Tank in Ground RB. Not for CAS to be an instant power-up with nearly uncontested dominance.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@GGK_Brian

Against every other 3.0-3.7 CAS, you dunk on them hard and played correctly they have no chance.

There is absolutely no 3.3-4.3 plane that the Hellcat dunks on.

il series outperform en in everything except top speed.

Yak series . . . well they’re UFOs so no surprise there.

Hurricane, Typhoon, and Spitfires run and turn circles around em.

Bf 109 beats Hellcat in every respect. Even Fw 190 arguably performs better in a dogfight since it’s able to go vertical without instantly stalling.

Italian Re., C., and G. all destroy the Hellcat.

Even other U.S. planes like P-47, P-51, F4U, P-63/39, or P-38 will dunk on a Hellcat, so if you’re fighting someone with U.S. copy paste you’re still cooked.

The only planes the Hellcat could really beat in a fight are planes like the Me 410* and I say that with a big asterisk cause I could reasonably see an Me 410 beating a Hellcat in a fight.

[QTip_44]

OH… well that’s pretty subtle as you have to click it.

But thanks for the info.

[GGK_Brian]

yaks are the only one you are right about (tho the average player plays it so badly that I never loose to them).

Typhoon has dogshit rollrate and similar instantaneous turnrate, you should easily be able to reverse it, and you should win when starting the fight. The only way to lose to a typhoon is either to go sustained or flatturn. The typhoon doesn’t even have that much better acceleration. Tho typhoon late have more power, but it’s a full BR higher.

Spitfire MkI/II is a full 80kph slower, Even the spit MkVb is still ~40kph slower. Sure you lose top speed with the racks, but depending of your load you can still be faster, I’ll admit it’s a pain to test.

The only 190 that beats the F6F is the A-1 and if you play in his hands, the rest have a gimped FM. And find me a single guy who brings a 190A-1 to Ground RB. No bomb, 20mm are the MG/FF so no penetration. Further you beat it sustained.

109s E And F2, you outrun, and instantaneous turn is similar.

109 F4 and G2 I can’t really confirm, I’d never tried personally to fight them in a F6F but when you need to pull stuff you face in a near full uptier, it tells you how strong an airframe is.

For reference, EM-Diagram of F6F-5, Courtesy of CatWerfer

The F6F is a plane that requires you to understand that energy fighting is no just “energy trapping”, it include turn and burn, and success in the F6F is dictated by how well you can understand when to burn to turn.

Italians I won’t pronounce myself since I don’t play them enough (and so should you for the same reason).

In ARB the reason it suffers it because it’s supercharger setup is not suited for 4k+, and with the low climbrate you are forced to side-climb or engage people at your worse altitude when they have advantage.

@Pangolin_Fan

The only planes the Hellcat could really beat in a fight are planes like the Me 410* and I say that with a big asterisk cause I could reasonably see an Me 410 beating a Hellcat in a fight.

Actually, I’ll stop right here with you. In you actually think the 410 has a change in a fight you are beyond saving.
The only reason people die to 410 is that is has a surprisingly good instanious turnrate and rollrate is good enough, so when the average 60IQ player see’s a 410, he thinks “free kill” and full send it full throttle only to get reversed and killed. But it’s still a heavy fighter, with bad power/weight, bad acceleration, mid nose authority, horrible sustained, ect. Even instantaneous is “surprising” but worse than a 190 for example.

@Pangolin_Fan

il series outperform en in everything except top speed.

Please stop man, I’m dying with laughter? Do I even need to say anything?

Il-2 beats a F6F-5 in a dogfight. LOL

[GGK_Brian]

Actually, I don’t even how why a self admitted bad player feels the need to comment about game balance and relative vehicle performance.

Who would trust a self admitted bad lawyer?

[Pangolin_Fan]

@GGK_Brian

Typhoon has dogshit rollrate and similar instantaneous turnrate, you should easily be able to reverse it

Actually, you can outroll most planes if you yaw in the direction you roll. 4.3 Typhoon is genuinely one of my fave planes in the entire TT.

@GGK_Brian

Spitfire MkI/II is a full 80kph slower, Even the spit MkVb is still ~40kph slower. Sure you lose top speed with the racks, but depending of your load you can still be faster, I’ll admit it’s a pain to test.

Not from my experience. Spitfire EASILY outruns a hellcat. If you’re looking at statcards, then just know they are super inaccurate.

@GGK_Brian

The only 190 that beats the F6F is the A-1 and if you play in his hands, the rest have a gimped FM.

The D-9, and the F-8 (super heavy 190) both do very well against hellcats.

@GGK_Brian

109 F4 and G2 I can’t really confirm, I’d never tried personally to fight them in a F6F but when you need to pull stuff you face in a near full uptier, it tells you how strong an airframe is.

Full uptier? Bf 109 G-2 and F6F-5N are both 4.3.

@GGK_Brian

Actually, I’ll stop right here with you. In you actually think the 410 has a change in a fight you are beyond saving.

Ok, so you’re just bad at flying. Gotcha.

@GGK_Brian

Il-2 beats a F6F-5 in a dogfight. LOL

How can you be so bad at the game that you lose to an F6F in an il-2?

[GGK_Brian]

@Pangolin_Fan

Actually, you can outroll most planes if you yaw in the direction you roll. 4.3 Typhoon is genuinely one of my fave planes in the entire TT.

Oh really? Who knew? I think this is even explained somewhere in the tutorial missions.
Fun fact, The F6F can also do this trick, if fact it works even better, simply because the Typhoon only start to roll below 400kph.

@Pangolin_Fan

Not from my experience. Spitfire EASILY outruns a hellcat. If you’re looking at statcards, then just know they are super inaccurate.

Let me tell you a little secret:

The spitfire accelerate faster than the Hellcat, so in the initial part of the chase, spit will seems to be catching, until the spitfire reach top speed but the Hellcat keeps accelerating.
If the spitfire is a bit close (1.5km), just dive 5-10 deg until the spit top speed and level out, you’ll immediately start outrunning him.

And anyone using this forum should know about the stat cart. I know my numbers, spit is a lot slower than F6F at sea level. I think on the stat card they have about the same

@Pangolin_Fan

The D-9, and the F-8 (super heavy 190) both do very well against hellcats.
Full uptier? Bf 109 G-2 and F6F-5N are both 4.3.

If you were following the conversion you would know we are talking about the F6F-5. The N is more of a meme than anything else, if you bring the F6F-5N when you have plenty of other option you like to suffer.
The only reason the N is at 4.3 is the 20mm cannons. So pulling the 190D is comparing a 3.3 and 5.0 aircraft, clearly the same right?
Oh and the 190F8 and 190A8 share the same FM as the A-1, it’s why they are decent. But A-4 and A-5 have a horrible FM for some obscure reason.

The more you know

@Pangolin_Fan

Ok, so you’re just bad at flying. Gotcha.

@GGK_Brian

Il-2 beats a F6F-5 in a dogfight. LOL

How can you be so bad at the game that you lose to an F6F in an il-2?

Excellent ragebait, 7/10. The Il-2 is a boat, sure it can turn like a spit for 1 second, but you are doing 250kph after. Good luck following anything.
Winning against an Il-2 is absurdly easy: Ignore it, go up, BnZ. Il-2 is anemic at sea level, any maneuver in which you go up and you win.

In all of my games, the only time I died to an IL-2 might be against the gunners. It’s such a non issue that I don’t even know how to explain how you fight it.

If you feels that the IL-2 is threatening in any way, you are the one bad at flying.

[RunaDacino]

@Pangolin_Fan

There is absolutely no 3.3-4.3 plane that the Hellcat dunks on.

My Best Sortie Ever! — F6F Hellcat — War Thunder Sim VR

"Easy Mode!" — F6F Hellcat — War Thunder Sim VR

Aircraft Showcase: Grumman F6F Hellcat — War Thunder Sim VR

The hellcat is competetive up to 5.7 in fact. I see it when i fly my 109 k4(5.7 in sim) or f4u4 (5.3in sim) and i see it do well

Fun fact. At a 5G turn at 350ish km/h IAS, the hellcat can pull some 29 deg/s with an under 200 meter radius turn.

At least without instructor using realistic or full real controls.

It is an incresibly powerful fighter held back by the abysmal cockpit that prevents you from looking behind you.

If you get outrun by spits i recommend learning MEC.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@GGK_Brian

Oh really? Who knew? I think this is even explained somewhere in the tutorial missions.
Fun fact, The F6F can also do this trick, if fact it works even better

It does not work better. Yaw’ing the same direction you roll has MASSIVE diminishing returns when you can already roll fast.

The Typhoon is absolutely goated imo, and an F6F stands no chance against it.

@GGK_Brian

Let me tell you a little secret:

The spitfire accelerate faster than the Hellcat, so in the initial part of the chase, spit will seems to be catching, until the spitfire reach top speed but the Hellcat keeps accelerating.
If the spitfire is a bit close (1.5km), just dive 5-10 deg until the spit top speed and level out, you’ll immediately start outrunning him.

And anyone using this forum should know about the stat cart. I know my numbers, spit is a lot slower than F6F at sea level. I think on the stat card they have about the same

Two small issues, this is GRB and F6F has awful energy retention. If you’re using your F6F for CAS, then you’re gonna be turning alot, and with bad acceleration, you’re getting outran by everything.

@GGK_Brian

Excellent ragebait, 7/10. The Il-2 is a boat, sure it can turn like a spit for 1 second, but you are doing 250kph after. Good luck following anything.
Winning against an Il-2 is absurdly easy: Ignore it, go up, BnZ. Il-2 is anemic at sea level, any maneuver in which you go up and you win.

That’s a double edged sword, cause winning in an il-2 is also absurdly easy. That 1 second of spitfire turning is plenty to get your nuclear autocannons on target. Granted, I don’t have the il-2, I have the il-8 which is heavier.

@GGK_Brian

If you feels that the IL-2 is threatening in any way, you are the one bad at flying.

I don’t feel the il-2 is threatening when I fight it, I know it’s a monster when I play it.

[GGK_Brian]

@Pangolin_Fan

I don’t feel the il-2 is threatening when I fight it, I know it’s a monster when I play it.

Sure thing, it’s a monster when you play it

@Pangolin_Fan

Granted, I don’t have the il-2

I don’t even need proof, You literally outed yourself the sentence above.

[Herojure24]

@Pangolin_Fan

Granted, I don’t have the il-2,

@Pangolin_Fan

I don’t feel the il-2 is threatening when I fight it, I know it’s a monster when I play it.

Contradicting yourself much?

[RunaDacino]

I wish pangolin finally accepted the chance to prove his piloting skills.

Duse talks real hot and spicy and claims incredible superioriry and yet it has been months and he still hadnt taken the offer to humiliate me with his incredible dogfighting talents

[GGK_Brian]

Duels tends to not prove much honestly,

I mean, do you even need to duel someone who claims that a F6F lose to an IL-2?

Pangolin keeps lying and deflecting despite get caught multiple times, He’d either ignore the result AND/OR say it was unfair because a fly was in the room and made him lose. As said somewhere else, his skin is tougher than crocodile. Just look at this example, he’ll simply ignore the fact that he lied and not answer but 3 answer below he’ll start over.

[Herojure24]

methinks he might be a politician IRL. Real corrupt politician behaviour.

[Pangolin_Fan]

Somehow, I’m not surprised that you’re so out of touch with reality that you don’t even know the IL series are ground attack planes.

[RunaDacino]

You claim the Il series is somehow capable of beating the Hellcat.

[ULQ_LOVER]

Or so good at using them that he has no issue fighting anything he sees ;)