Gaijin stops me from strategically using my sp to first spawn a nuke.
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Being barred from using them.
Jesus Christ you people really are something else.
You are not barred from using anything. The bar is only raised higher than before for secondary spawns.
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Translation: you wanna be lazy instead of learn to actually counter CAS.
Correction*
We just want to play tanks. Planes are cool but we just want tanks
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How do people still not realize more planes are better for everybody? It’s been years and most don’t grasp the idea that SPAA exist. I advocate for reducing CAS spawn costs not just because I enjoy playing CAS aircraft, but also because I love playing SPAA. For me and many other players, the interplay between air and ground forces is half the fun of Ground RB.
If you support the currently exorbitantly high aircraft/helicopter SP costs, you not only make the game more challenging for CAS players, but also make it boring for SPAAs and CAP players. IFVs lose targets to shoot at, people complaining of campers have more to complain about, and heavy tanks grow increasingly unchallenged. Matches become progressively more static. The performance gap between new and old players widens, and the once-powerful force equalizer weakens, aggravating the pains of already unbalanced ground BRs.
Ground RB is an ecosystem! Similar to natural structures, any negative change in the balance of Ground RB has destabilizing, knock-on effects. Ask yourself: is your logic structurally sound, or are you only thinking at the surface level?
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the nation i play has a 3BR gap until the next SPAA, id have to play one of the worst ww2 SPAAs when russians get RADAR assisted SPAA systems.
“just spawn SPAA is a braindead argument” Im playing a tank, in the tank mode. I dont want planes, I want tanks. SPAA doesnt exist at all or competitivley in the nation i play at all until top tier. I JUST WANT TANKS
IFVs arent exactly meant to be taking on tanks let alone aircraft
flanking used to exist before gaijin lobotomised most maps. CAS almost never deals with them anyway unless its a petty revenge bombing anyway
skill issue.
and CAS spam is like pouring PFAs into a lake
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For me and many other players
are those “other players” in the room with you and me, cuz i agree i like playing the anti airs when they work. cuz at top tier you see about mmmmm maybe MAYBE two people with an Anti air of any kinda and the rest are one spawn fucktards or premium players. i would 100% agree IF we could have guarantee that most of the time actually has either A. a line up to actually play the damn game or B. actually has an AA in or one rank below the current rank being played
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If you support the currently exorbitantly high aircraft/helicopter SP costs, you not only make the game more challenging for CAS players
good fuck them, i want to play my tank not oh look a bomb or atgm or fnf missile simulator. since after the second one it gets pretty fucking old when you as i said before dont have an intelligent teammate you ground 400k for an AA since why would you when you could just go for a tank. a very very simple fix for the cas problem REDUCE HOW MUCH THE FUCKING ANTI AIRS ARE GAIJIN. they have no reason to cost the same amount of rp as a MBT. now that being said real anti airs should have the rp reduced, not things like the itpsv leo or the zsu57s stuff that has an AT capable gun those can stay the same rp as they are.
that is my ted talk, agree disagree personally i dont care i wont be here to argue in the forums where nothing gets solved cuz these devs havent listen to us in about 7 years have a lovely day/night
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flanking used to exist before gaijin lobotomised most maps
finally someone said it, every “new” map that has come out sucks fucking ass oh and dont forget about the "balancing the playing field by just cutting the map down to 3/4 its original size oh some maps i understand but look at fucking cargo port solo B point
The game you want to play is not War Thunder. It’s one thing to want change and improvement, but it is completely different to play a game while desiring something fundamentally different altogether. Ground RB is not a mode exclusively for tanks; it is explicitly described as “mixed battles”, and has always been that way. Describing Ground RB as “tank mode” is reductionist and ignorant of reality.
It’s like a person buying oranges expecting them to taste like lemons, and getting disappointed when it doesn’t taste sour. Instead of buying lemons in the first place, they then proceed to protest that all oranges should be made sour. Not only is this obviously illogical, it also isn’t very nice to people who just wanted to eat oranges. This person is the embodiment of the anti-CAS complainers.
Have you ever noticed that this subsection of the community is, among other things, openly and proudly illogical? The very group that claims nerfing CAS is justified in the name of balance, is the very same group which frequently posts such intelligent quips like “Fuck CAS” and open declarations of bad-faith argument. Even after realizing the error of their logic, CAS haters self-rationalize/self-distract with vague excuses such as “Any nerf to CAS is good”, and “CAS players deserve to suffer”.
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I’m sorry to say, but you’re not the target audience. Warthunder caters to combined arms fans and flight sim fans above all else, hence why there’s no tank mode.
Excuse me, I couldn’t help but notice that your bias is showing!
Someone??? Literally everyone has been complaining about this.
It’s not like there’s some small group of haters who don’t like WT’s modern maps. Half the maps in Warthunder have a very large and very dedicated following of haters.
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Gaijin is making changes that actively discourage your playstyle, I think you are not the target audience
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Eh…combined arms gameplay isn’t someone’s “playstyle”…it’s the game. CA is the gist of the game at large and especially RB GFs.
As for who is and isn’t the target audience, Gaijin is currently sparring with the Chinese and aren’t being too choosy with the rest of us. Your money spends like anyone else’s and so does mine…they’re not particular.
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Yes–that’s why the forum polls that so many cite are essentially always ‘poor quality’ at best and ‘utterly useless’ at worst. Conditions do not allow for the polls to function as some people would like (and as others would like to portray).
While also clearly imperfect, simply observing reactions in-game is likelier to yield truer results on a given question about something…at least there you have a pool of players gathered at random in the relevant spot!
I suppose that it is correct to say it is not a flat out block…but it’s certainly a speed bump which aircraft face while ground units do not.
As I’ve mentioned before, this change hasn’t altered too much for myself; depending on the scenario and earnings, I either choose or earn enough to not have to worry. Still, I suspect others will be sour about this and think there’ll probably be some sort of reckoning or ruckus to it. (As @Ghost_of_TelAviv observed, those who purchased crew slots are probably going to be irritated.)
If Gaijin is going to change SP costs of aircraft like this, I do wonder if the old pre-2017 SP costs for tanks are going to be resurrected as well. Back in those days, GFs vehicles were about twice their current SP costs. (You probably remember that if you’ve been around since 2014.)
While I don’t advocate for such a change right now, I do wonder if these aircraft SP cost changes are part of a push in that direction…I suppose time will tell.
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Seeing CAS haters cite polls even after having it explained to em that it makes em look as bad as Redditors is just hilarious.
If polls are so irrelevant why did you make one?
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I can see that but at the same time I literally bought 2 more crew slots for France this year just to play more tanks. I don’t have a single lineup with more than 1 plane. If you have more than 2 planes in your lineups just suck it up I guess.
The game is not more challenging for CAS players. Once you are CASing nothing changes. First spawn CAS has not been made any harder to get in the recent past.
Making it boring for SPAA I can agree with. Sucks to spawn SPAA and just have nothing to shoot at but everyone knows this is an option when they spawn SPAA.
Game being boring for CAP? You wanna shoot down planes with your plane? There is 3 dedicated game modes just for that. You don’t necessarily have to do it in ground battles.
Someone else already said that IFVs are not meant to be engaging planes.
All of those can be dealt with without resorting to CAS and that has always been the case.
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I was not referring to eliminating of “Close Aerial Presence,” but rather the “cap zone and immediately J out to jump in a plane” behavior, otherwise abbreviated as “cap & fly.” Apologies for the misunderstanding.
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It’s a habitual victim mentality - the people doing the complaining will never not find something else to complain about. Hence why the only long-term solution to the CAS question must be constructed in such a way that it is automatically insulated from such crap.
Which boils down to making all potential counters to CAS so everpresent and effective even in average player hands that even the most stubborn fools like these cannot come up with any excuse not to try using said counters.
“But I wanna play tanks!” ain’t an excuse, either. That is a choice of preference. If they willingly choose a vehicle class which is not effective against aerial threats, that should be solely on them with nothing to blame but their own stubborn choice.
The entire “earn SP for plane” concept is fundamentally unbalanceable in my eyes. Doesn’t matter what you set the cost to. One team will always get air up before the other, who then complains its “OP” simply because they’re salty about dying and don’t want to blame their own mistakes.
And if you make that choice willingly, then you should have no excuse to complain. You willingly choose to keep playing a game that has and will always have both - that isn’t a game problem, but rather a user preference one.
EXACTLY! Average players will not learn to use SPAAGs if aircraft get less common, and if the only practical SPAAGs are also totally defenseless against tanks. Rather, much as we saw when helicopters were new and Gaijin jacked up SP costs to save the whales from the consequences of their own actions, the fewer planes that did get airborne became more powerful, not less, because less people bothered even bringing appropriate counters with them.
People go full “ANGR MONKY” mode about CAS because frankly, snail implemented CAS very poorly as a killstreak powerup ripped out of Call of Duty, and completely lacking the vast majority of its real objectives, thereby forcing all CAS to try their luck at killing tanks whether they’re actually good at it or not. Simultaneously, tiny tank maps effectively trap tanks in a barrel waiting to get bombed, and current mechanics of the kill camera and airspawns only encourage the use of CAS as a sleazy revenge weapon. Thus this absolute dumpster fire of a mechanic has at least three overlapping parts, most of which have received no adjustment in years or only the barest minimum.
- It is currently implemented as a revenge killstreak powerup, with rage-inducing mechanics encouraging this toxic use.
- Its counters for most of the game are ineffective or unavailable when you need them. Despite the mode being marketed as a Combined Arms mode, it doesn’t actually force users to have both unit types in their decks when it probably should.
- Aircraft are totally lacking most of their possible objectives which could serve to draw away a lot of incoming bombs/rockets/gunfire/missiles from player tanks. Most CAS IRL hit supply lines, not tanks directly, which were too numerous and stubborn to kill to make a massive difference with.
Habitual CAS haters are quite literally the “this is fine” meme - as long as they get their selfish piece of the pie, they couldn’t care less that the rest of it has gone rancid.
Fish-in-a-barrel maps are part of the CAS problem. It means that tanks have nowhere to hide. Thus in addition to counters being all over the place in terms of effectiveness, if people use them at all that is, and that CAS lacks most of its real objectives, tanks are stuck in shoeboxes with no options.
Of course it’s frustrating - but the solution is to completely reform how CAS works, and in a broader sense also the objectives & maps tanks use alongside that, not removing or “removing” planes to throw a rug over the stain.
I have long felt the mode name needs to be changed to make it more obvious. Also, it could pull a page from Naval and give everyone default aircraft in their decks so now, nobody is lacking BR-appropriate Fighters and CAS. Theoretically such a concept could also be extended to SPAAG and SAMs.
Then if everyone has the tools to help themselves but some choose not to, then those who choose not to use them forfeit their excuse to complain about how “OP” CAS supposedly still is.
Excellent comparison. Another would be walking into a sandwich shop and demanding they make you a pizza - even if both are technically made from the same ingredients in many cases, if its not on the menu, then its not on the menu. If the store doesn’t specialize in making pizza, even if they made you one, chances are it won’t be all that spectacular (like Subway offering pizza in America - I have yet to see anyone order it).
Most of them are simply too much “ANGR MONKY” mode to calm down and think rationally about how CAS does and does not work. As a system, it IS absolutely FUBAR in its current state. Fixing it would mean totally scrapping RB’s “earn SP for (better) vehicle” concept in favor of what Simulator does, which has been tested in some RB events but not seriously pursued.
Not only is CAS a FUBAR system, but it has so many interlocking component issues that MUST be fixed almost simultaneously, not piecemeal or any attempts at truly “fixing” it will go down in flames.
Amen.
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