British Helicopter Tech Tree - Discussion Topic

Continuing on from the previous forum’s topic, this will be a collective central place to discuss the British helicopter tree, with a collection of some of the previous answers and comments on some topics within the tree, as well as some examples of places you can go and see these machines in person.

In game tree:
Westland Scout AH Mk 1 - Researchable Rank V British Helicopter

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Westland Wasp HAS Mk 1 - Researchable Rank V British Helicopter

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Westland Lynx AH Mk 1 - Researchable Rank VI British Helicopter

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AgustaWestland Apache AH Mk 1 – Researchable Rank VII British Helicopter

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G-LYNX - Premium Rank VI British Helicopter

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Rooivalk Mk1F CSH - Premium Rank VI British Helicopter

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Real world examples:
Often when adding vehicles to War Thunder, we frequently try to visit the real deal to make sure our models can be as accurate as possible or perhaps there is a particular part of the vehicle with a lack of evidence available. In such cases where you cant find a suitable source, the best course of action is mostly to just see for yourself!

Here are a few examples I visited in real life as we were working on these vehicle’s and where you can find them:

Wasp - Boscombe Down
A unique place to visit as virtually every cockpit is accessible. This was also a great place to get up close with the Wasp.

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Lynx - Duxford
A later AH Mk 7 version than what we have in game. But still useful to see for the many similarities between the variants.

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G-LYNX - The Helicopter Museum
The record breaking airframe still exists, restored by apprentices and other staff. Presented in its later configuration where it was used to break the world speed record.

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Apache - Duxford Air show and Yeovilton Air Display
Apaches are slightly harder to find as they are still in service. They do however frequently visit Air shows and air displays all over the UK. This was a good chance to see some of the finer details like the rocket pods, countermeasure pods and other details not so easy to reference when making the model.

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Frequently asked and already answered questions:
Q. Why does G-LYNX not have its engine exhaust covers and other visual elements it received?
A. G-LYNX was a Westland AH-1 used as a demonstration platform by the company. They modified it over time, but the base was still an AH-1. All of the mentioned weapons systems could be fitted to G-LYNX and thus AH-1 standard. Of course they were not all adopted, but they could be used. This model was used in air shows to show what this model could do and mount. There is also some confusion about many of the “upgrades” G-LYNX should / should not have.

Our G-LYNX is modelled as the standard base variant before it received other modification such as exhaust changes, new tail stabilizers and other visual and internal changes.

This is the configuration represented in game:

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Q. Why is the Gazelle not included in the British tree when they operated it?
A. Currently to the best of our information, the Gazelle AH-1 was never armed beyond SNEBSs as a makeshift modification in the Falklands. The Gazelle was mainly used as a Scout, in conjunction with the Lynx to work together in combat. With the Lynx handling the Anti-Tank role. There have been several mentions of armed trials and uses of ATGMs, but sadly a lack of any real evidence directly on British Gazelles.

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The only information we currently have on Gazelles being tested (Aside from unguided rockets in the Falklands) is F-ZWRI, which now resides at the Newark Air Museum. This early variant was tested with TOW launcher tube test racks, as well as some other weaponry during its lifetime by Westland at Yeovil for the British military services. But again, its still not clear to what extent:

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If there is anything factual (photographic or sources) to show otherwise, it would be useful to share. However beyond SNEBs and a singular test of a missile, there is nothing currently worthwhile to add it to the game for.

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Tube in the Newark museum appears to be a TOW round just lashed on to the side rather than in a proper launcher

F-ZWRI when it had an Army Air Corps serial XW276. Carrying some form of tubed armament

Is that the photo you have as reference for Westland’s tests with missiles?

That’s correct. As well as mentions of these tests, its unfortunately all we have currently.

Thanks for the pickup on the HOT/TOW. Corrected now.

Westland promo video showing a few alternative weapons for Lynx, likely offered for export. Including Oerlikon SURA 80mm rockets, Euromissile HOT and Matra R.550

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That’s a really nice find. Hopefully we can see some of those in game.

That was a great watch, don’t think I’ve seen the 20mm fired before.

Do you personally use the gun on the Lynx/G-Lynx? I tend to prefer having extra AAMs.

So, the AH MK1 only ever used the Starstreaks as AA missiles? They are great against helis but I think stingers are better against aircraft

Does AH MK.1 have any chance to get Brimstone?

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Probably not. The Brimstone tests were carried out on an AH-64E, not a WAH-64D (Apache AH.1), and actual integration of Brimstone on Apache has not been funded.
So if it comes, I imagine it will be with the later model of Apache in the UK tree alongside it’s usual armaments of late model Hellfires and the new JAGM.

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ALARM on a Lynx:

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I have a question for the Tech Tree Lynx version: wouldn’t be better to split the helicopter in the tech tree into 2 separate versions?
The 1st Lynx (i.e. AH.1) can be equipped with TOW missiles in it’s top configuration and sitting at a lower BR (9.3 or 9.7).
The 2nd Lynx (the best contender would be AH.9) can equipped with Hellfires in it’s top configuration and replacing the current version in the tech tree for 10.0 or 10.3 BR.
In this manner, GB also receives a boost in it’s Helicopter tree and an easier transition from Scout and Wasp helicopters, sitting at 8.3 BR.

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Lynx AH.7 and AH.9 (though AH.9 was never armed with anything besides door guns IRL) had MAWS and DIRCM (plus a lower IR signature with exhaust suppressors and better performance from uprated engines and BERP rotors) so would likely be a significantly higher BR than the AH.1 is currently, and pushing them closer to the Apache AH.1’s BR.

Solution for a lesser Lynx might be to introduce the 5th WG.13 prototype, XW839 which had a suggested armament of TOW, HawkSwing (air-launched Swingfire), Euromissile HOT (I think), SNEB rockets, SUU-11 7.62mm gunpod and what I guess is an Ordtech .50 cal gunpod (guessed wrong here) a 7.62mm twin gun pod containing 2 FN MAGs


Navy Lynx Mk.2 might also be an option as it could carry AS.12 (mentioned in the 1975 snippet above, along with AS.11)

Pictured helicopter is XX911/F-ZKCV the French Navy’s second trials airframe. But Royal Navy and French Mk.2s (HAS.2 and HAS.2(FN) respectively) were fundamentally the same and only differ by their chosen armament, installation of the appropriate roof-mounted sight, radios etc. AFAIK the RN only used HAS.2 with Sea Skua, torps and depth charges in service but AS.12 had been in RN service on the Wasp and Wessex while Lynx was still being trialled.

Also found another pic of the HOT launcher pod seen in the previous video

This time on Westland’s AH.1 pre-production aircraft XX907

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IRL Starstreaks are great against helicopters and jets, they are just implemented very poorly at the moment.

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What’s equally interesting is the fact that this is a naval Lynx (HAS.2 or HAS.3 specifically).

Do we have any further information about this?

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I am currently looking into some helicopters which haven’t had suggestions written about them, and I had gotten to the Wessex. However, I ran into some issues when trying to find images, as there seems to be a some differences between the images.

There are two Wessex variants which I am researching currently, the Wessex Commando Mk.1 and the Wessex HU.5. The main difference in regards to the airframes is in the engines, with the Commando Mk.1 having a single Napier Gazelle engine, and the HU.5 using a twin Rolls-Royce Gnome layout, which gives it a longer nose.

My main question is whether it would be possible to help me confirm the identity of some photos, as I believe that some of the images have been mixed up when being posted online. I am of the opinion that the images in the first spoiler are the Wessex Commando Mk.1, however, I would like to get a some confirmations about this before continuing my research.

Here are the images I am referring to:

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Here is the Westland Wessex Commando Mk.1:

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In comparison, here is the Westland Wessex HU.5:

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First two are HU.5s, third one is a HAS.1 possibly in the Commando role, but I suspect it’s XM330 that was the RN and later Royal Aircraft Establishment Wessex HAS.1 used for various tests including qualifying the AS.11 and AS.12 on Wessex Mk.1.
Exhausts are how you tell the Napier engined ones apart from the later Gnome ones. Napier engine had two small exhausts on each side where the RR engines was one big exhaust on each side. The intake screen on the nose was a later addition (1966/1967-ish) because they sucked up debris from the ground.
Can see the RR Gnome behind an early un-modified nose here:

Late HU.5s would also have swapped the original .303 Browning machine gun installation for a 7.62mm GPMG (probably from the 1970s onward)

HU.5s took over the commando role within 3 years so you don’t see many images of armed Mk.1s. But they did have the same weapon pylons as commonly seen on the HU.5

Can see the empty Browning pod still fitted in the above

And empty AS.11 launchers on the outboard position in the above

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Thanks for the info, and thanks for the images too! It was a real pain trying to find proper images of the Wessex Commando Mk.1s, especially with the loading bars for weapons.

Here is a list of potential helicopters which can be added to the UK Tree. I am going to split the list between UK procured and exports.

UK procured:

Westland Wessex Commando Mk.1

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Westland Wessex HU.5

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Westland Commando

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Westland Lynx XW839

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Westland Lynx XX907

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Westland Lynx HAS.2/HAS.3/HMA.8

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Seaborne Lynxes: Westland Lynx HAS.2/HAS.3/HMA.8 - Passed for Consideration - War Thunder - Official Forum

Westland Lynx AH.5

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Westland Lynx AH.7

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Westland Lynx 3

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Westland Lynx ZB500

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AgustaWestland SuperLynx 300 ZT800

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AgustaWestland AW159 Wildcat HMA.2

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Agusta A109 Hirundo

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Agusta A109 Hirundo: Shaken Not Stirred....

BAE Hind-D Upgrade

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BAE Mi-24 Hind-D: Hind goes to Britain

Boeing AH-64E Apache Guardian

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Westland-Sikorsky WS-70 Blackhawk

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Mil Mi-17-1V

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Aerospatiale Gazelle XW276

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Export:

AgustaWestland SuperLynx 300 Mk.140

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[DZ] AgustaWestland Super Lynx 300 Mk.140: Algeria's trustworthy Cat

AgustaWestland AW159 Wildcat HMA.2 (ROK)

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Westland Sea King Mk.42B

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Westland Commando Mk.3

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Edited my list to include the Westland Blackhawk