BI-1 Is Pay-to-Win and needs to be dealt with

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
111

I have far less experience facing the BI in jets compared to props but here’s my take based off the numbers.

Even at low altitude, the BI can maintain around 500 MPH TAS at only 30% throttle, which will last about 20 minutes from a full tank, and it can accelerate from takeoff to this speed in seconds. Early jets, especially at 7.0 and below, have poor acceleration, and top speeds not much faster than this. I think that in a 6.0 - 7.0 or 6.3 - 7.3 match on normal sized maps, if the BI is aggressive early in the match by flying directly towards the enemy AF in a high speed, shallow climb there will be basically nothing the jets can do. The BI will reach them with a speed and alt advantage far before they have time to accelerate, and can just start tearing them apart. The more they maneuver trying to avoid or kill the BI, the less chance they have of catching it and the more vulnerable they will be when the rest of the BI’s teammates arrive. The BI is outright superior to any 7.0 jet imo.

For fighting jets which are significantly faster than the BI, like 7.7s or higher, I think the key will be the BI’s rate of climb. You can’t get BnZed relentlessly by an enemy who is far below you, even if they are going 100 mph faster. Sure, the BI would not be able to catch such an opponent without ripping, but other 7.0-7.3 jets would have the same problem in the same situation. In reality, a Meteor Mk. 3 or F3D could only dream of finding itself in a situation where, having been able to so effortlessly outclimb all Mig-15s and Sabres while still being able to go 550 mph TAS, it now can’t dive on them without ripping unless they slow down.

I think from this position at altitude over the combat area, the BI should conserve its fuel by throttling down to maintain ~300-350 mph, and dive opportunistically on anyone who gets too slow. If the enemies are staying fast, stay high. If they are slow, get in there and kill them. Maximize your opportunities by staying just high enough that the enemies cant reach you without exposing themselves for you to attack, but not so high that you accelerate uncontrollably when diving in and/or they have time to dive/accelerate away. This is somewhat similar in method but drastically easier than playing the Ki-200 in an uptier against supersonics.

The BI would suffer from BR compression at 7.0/7.3, but it would still be in a better position than many 7.0 or 7.3 jets. Let’s say you climb up to 20000 feet, and burn through half of your fuel doing so, such that you have only 1 minute left. At 20% throttle, you can still fly at over 500 mph for over 25 minutes. Due to being a rocket the BI benefits massively in fuel economy at high altitude, since drag decreases with increasing altitude, but unlike a prop or jet, thrust actually increases. This makes the BI’s physics-defyingly efficient rocket engine even more insane.

112

Lmao so you really were just shitposting. Go to 4cha- ah, reddit for that.
Why are you avoiding this BR? It’s fun and there are plenty of games. You don’t need to get games that quick because you insta die on battle start to some full commit headon as an attacker plane, do you?

113

BR should be 7.0

114

Just generally not a fan of large map, small planes. Then again, my experience at the early jets have mainly been Vampires (what I get for picking the three countries with Vampires by complete coincidence). It left a sour taste, and I just avoid it.

115

Man, that explains it all. The Vampire deserves 7.0, it’s inferior to the Ho 229 in regards to speed, acceleration, and turn. The playstyle is you baiting people to turn with you, and you can’t do anything else. That’s not the case with the vast majority of other planes at those BRs.
The Mig-9s suck too, you depend on being faster than others, but you’re always facing faster opponents, so tough luck with the Chinese tree too.

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116

If it can gets to target its better already

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117

The BI will reach them with a speed and alt advantage far before they have time to accelerate, and can just start tearing them apart.

This is true with regards to jets like the Horten, the Meteor Mk. 3, and the J21/A21. Those are always the easy targets. They’re not very common in my experience, with most jets I face being airspawning F-84s, F3D, F2H-2, the airspawning Jabo, the SK-60B, F-89B, and the occasional Kikka. Then you have some mandatory B-29s throw into the mix.

By far the most annoying one to fight is the F2H-2, with a boom n zooming 262 or F-89B at altitude right behind.

I think from this position at altitude over the combat area, the BI should conserve its fuel by throttling down to maintain ~300-350 mph, and dive opportunistically on anyone who gets too slow.

The BI is not a boom n zoomer. You’re not gaining anything by resorting to dive tactics in a plane that can’t break 434 mph without compressing. At least not against planes that are faster than you on the deck.

Maximize your opportunities by staying just high enough that the enemies cant reach you without exposing themselves for you to attack, but not so high that you accelerate uncontrollably when diving in and/or they have time to dive/accelerate away.

I’m not sure what this scenario would be. If you have to withhold energy in a dive, it doesn’t matter if you’re 2,5 km away or 5 km away. It depends on whether they’re slow in the first place, and if they’re aware of you as you approach. If they are aware of you, and they’re one of the enemy jets that are difficult to catch, it’s just more effective to bait them in with the false hope of superiority in numbers, and see if they’ll try tag-teaming you with a dogfight.

The BI would suffer from BR compression at 7.0/7.3, but it would still be in a better position than many 7.0 or 7.3 jets.

This is why I argue for BR decompression instead. The performance gap in this BR range is pretty big, especially when you consider the enemies you’ll be up against in an uptier.

Due to being a rocket the BI benefits massively in fuel economy at high altitude, since drag decreases with increasing altitude, but unlike a prop or jet, thrust actually increases. This makes the BI’s physics-defyingly efficient rocket engine even more insane.

The biggest gain is actually the weight reduction once you get below 50 seconds of fuel. It’s preferable to burn away a good chunk of your first minute early game to set yourself up at around 4km alt and cruise around 18-24% on your approach to the enemy. That leaves you with some 30-35 seconds of 100% throttle usage for actual fighting, while you keep about 15 seconds handy for returning to the airfield. Below 5 seconds of fuel, I’ve made it across the map on 3% throttle (very slowly, though).

118

I wasn’t saying I remembered you for being a good player. You just make your opinion loud and clear.

You once got angry after I killed you in the Ta 152 when you tried to dive on me and started complaining in the in-game chat for the rest of the match. The same day, when I encountered you again, you said “gg” and flew back to the airfield.

119

The fact is, you remembered me and then lied about you beating me several times (not like that’s any achievement beating a 6.0 plane in a plane that is practically unkillable), I’m not saying you remember good players, I’m also fairly sure while flying this absolutely OP marvel it makes little difference how skilled your opponents are as you can’t be touched anyway and if they engage, they will just waste their time and either die to BI or his teammates.
I can’t be bothered to remember some stat-padding scrublord in BI. That’s the thing.
Flying back to AF is the only reasonable tactic against BI, unless somebody is inna 4-man squad and is ready to employ a Thatch Weave for entirety of the game.

So keep keep abusing your magical soviet “I win” rocket button while big boys talk. Thank you.

BI should go to 7.7
It’ll still be absolutely unkillable, it just will have a bit more difficulty killing entire lobby, lol.
Right now, when flying 7.0 or 7.3 aircraft, BI is my biggest fear anyway. If it’s more dangerous than 7.3 fighters it belongs at 7.7 with its sustained 14G turn.

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120

The fact is, you remembered me and then lied about you beating me several times

That wasn’t a lie. You just play the BR range frequently enough, and complain loud enough for people to take notice. And “the fact” didn’t have to do with that, I’m just not taking your opinion at face value given your attitude when faced with the thing.

It’s OP when faced with most props. It isn’t 7.3-7.7 material. Thank you, “lol”.

121

You literally have 1 example of you doing anything against me. Imagine this - I’m very succesful with Wyvern. And I was all the time advocating for it to go up in BR. It finally does. I’m happy about it, as I can still make it work. No problem whatsoever.
Now you are sad little pathetic sweatlord defending your little OP toy and somehow trying to make it all personal/make yourself look better because you “won” a single game where you abused your 7.7 pay2winner’s delight against 6.0 prop. Good for you, lol.

And not when “faced with most props” my child, it’s OP even if going solo against entire 16-man team of 2KPB players in Spitfire Mk 24s and P-51H.

It also beats 7.0 jets. It comfortably beats every 7.3 jet, they simply can’t hope to ever touch you. 7.7 makes perfect sense, as 7.7 jets at least can reliably dive away.

122

You’ve missed the point here. I’m not entering a pissing contest about who’s a better player. You made a reply to me about how the BI

And I disagreed. Mostly because I’ve played it long enough to know how effective it is in uptiers, and partially because you’re not advocating for it in good faith based on my encounters with you in the game.

Now please, stop with the name-calling, or pick a fight with someone else. We’re not going to find mutual ground here besides that the BI is overperforming against props, so have a nice day.

123

The thing is - it shouldn’t be more effective than other 7.3 planes to sit at 7.3.
And it’s still unkillable. Basically BI removes any chance of anyone on enemy team attempting energy fighting or dogfighting in general, because if you ever go below 700, there comes clown rocket with 14G sustained turn.
The whole point of BI BR change is to move it so high up it can at least be escaped. This requires v. good acceleration that planes below 7.7 do not possess.
Su-11 has a chance to outrun BI if it goes below 600 and starts running early. Su-9 does not.also 7.7 limits the props encounterwd to 6.7 who still absolutely can’t touch you, but at least they encounter you only in full uptier.

Me-163 compared to BI is a joke. Yeah it has way better high speed handling, but guns are way worse (even the MG151/20 variant - it has no range and 2 Shvaks 1-click people out of existence anyway) and Me-163 is nowhwere near as maneuvrable below 700, while BI literally has the best sustained turn in the game and can rip its wings while turning during spiral climb.

124

BR decompression is always the pie in the sky solution to BR balancing problems that Gaijin will never let us have. I argue for practical, realistic solutions which could be implemented immediately. And ultimately, it’s better for the overall health of the BR range for this marketplace oddity vehicle to suffer more in uptiers like the other early jets already do than to keep ruining prop matches.

This is more of a problem with excessive proliferation of strike aircraft spawns in early jet fighters. Strike aircraft spawn is a massive advantage to these early jets which struggle to accelerate after takeoff. I’m generally against airspawns. 262 Jabo, F3D and SK60 would have no hope against BI without airspawns. Even with airspawn though, these jets have relatively low top speeds which take a long time to reach. Any amount of maneuvering or zoom climbing and they will quickly drop into the range of being vulnerable. F-89B is clearly undertiered and deserves a BR increase. F2H and Kikka are among the few early jets with sufficient speed and acceleration to have a hope of escaping the BI without airspawn.

For all of these early jets, its an extremely dangerous game against the BI, where they have to stay at the top end of their speed capability, and if they drop just a bit too slow for any reason the BI can latch on and it’s basically game over, while the BI can always stay out of reach if it wants.

I just don’t see how you keep getting BnZed in the BI by early jets, even 262s. You shouldn’t be in that situation in the first place, and if you are, just kick up the throttle and go vertical while gaining speed. You can climb at tens of thousands of ft/min. Even if they are faster than you initially they won’t be able to keep climbing for long without their speed dropping low enough to become vulnerable, its a get out of jail free card.

Spoiler

If nothing else, maintaining even a slight altitude advantage over all nearby opponents will prevent the getting BnZed you keep talking about. Yes, killing enemies from this position does depend on them being slow in the first place or getting baited into going for you, but that’s the nature of flying any plane that is slower than its opponents. The BI still has absolute dominance in rate of climb and maneuverability which should make it basically invulnerable.

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125

I mean, one can try to BnZ BI, but then what? It dodges, and now you can run in a super shallow climb. If BI counters by climbing, he’ll have alt advantage in no time, making pushing for head-on suicidial.
And BI outclimbs every jet at 7.7 while using like 40% throttle.

You can’t force him down, you can’t make him slow down. You can’t outturn him. You can’t energy trap him.
Outside of lucky spamming of high velocity stealth belt from 1000+m.away, there’s nothing that will work outside of cooperating with a few players and constantly pushing for a head-on till BI ace botches a dodge.

126

So you want a plane you don’t like to suffer because… you don’t like fighting it? You’re the entire reason why the BRs are messed up in the first place.

127

Not suffer. To be fairly mediocre. Better for one plane to be mediocre than for everyone who encounterw it to suffer. At 7.7 it’ll be unkillable anyway. But it’ll also have trouble scoring kills. Sounds more balanced than absolute domination at 6.7 ans 7.0

128

Or just leave it as is? It’s a plane that very few can get, there’s other planes that actually need balancing, such as the F4JUNK to be 11.7

129

Leave it be so it can ROFLstomp entore lobby and the only thing 6.7-7.0 enemy team can do is land and j-out?
So basically you want everyone to suffer so BI players can kill everything with impunity? Reread your own comment and think about it.

130

The core issue with the BI is that its mistakes are unpunishable by props. It needs to be put at a BR where if a BI pilot commits too much, then it dies. Simple as. And that is possible at a slightly higher BR, where if a BI commits to a fight at high speed where it compresses a little, then a window for punishment becomes available. It’s not going to suffer at 7.7, but you WILL need to learn how to use it in such an environment.

I see it almost every fight these days, due to them being distributed in boxes.