You’ve missed the point here. I’m not entering a pissing contest about who’s a better player. You made a reply to me about how the BI
And I disagreed. Mostly because I’ve played it long enough to know how effective it is in uptiers, and partially because you’re not advocating for it in good faith based on my encounters with you in the game.
Now please, stop with the name-calling, or pick a fight with someone else. We’re not going to find mutual ground here besides that the BI is overperforming against props, so have a nice day.
The thing is - it shouldn’t be more effective than other 7.3 planes to sit at 7.3.
And it’s still unkillable. Basically BI removes any chance of anyone on enemy team attempting energy fighting or dogfighting in general, because if you ever go below 700, there comes clown rocket with 14G sustained turn.
The whole point of BI BR change is to move it so high up it can at least be escaped. This requires v. good acceleration that planes below 7.7 do not possess.
Su-11 has a chance to outrun BI if it goes below 600 and starts running early. Su-9 does not.also 7.7 limits the props encounterwd to 6.7 who still absolutely can’t touch you, but at least they encounter you only in full uptier.
Me-163 compared to BI is a joke. Yeah it has way better high speed handling, but guns are way worse (even the MG151/20 variant - it has no range and 2 Shvaks 1-click people out of existence anyway) and Me-163 is nowhwere near as maneuvrable below 700, while BI literally has the best sustained turn in the game and can rip its wings while turning during spiral climb.
BR decompression is always the pie in the sky solution to BR balancing problems that Gaijin will never let us have. I argue for practical, realistic solutions which could be implemented immediately. And ultimately, it’s better for the overall health of the BR range for this marketplace oddity vehicle to suffer more in uptiers like the other early jets already do than to keep ruining prop matches.
This is more of a problem with excessive proliferation of strike aircraft spawns in early jet fighters. Strike aircraft spawn is a massive advantage to these early jets which struggle to accelerate after takeoff. I’m generally against airspawns. 262 Jabo, F3D and SK60 would have no hope against BI without airspawns. Even with airspawn though, these jets have relatively low top speeds which take a long time to reach. Any amount of maneuvering or zoom climbing and they will quickly drop into the range of being vulnerable. F-89B is clearly undertiered and deserves a BR increase. F2H and Kikka are among the few early jets with sufficient speed and acceleration to have a hope of escaping the BI without airspawn.
For all of these early jets, its an extremely dangerous game against the BI, where they have to stay at the top end of their speed capability, and if they drop just a bit too slow for any reason the BI can latch on and it’s basically game over, while the BI can always stay out of reach if it wants.
I just don’t see how you keep getting BnZed in the BI by early jets, even 262s. You shouldn’t be in that situation in the first place, and if you are, just kick up the throttle and go vertical while gaining speed. You can climb at tens of thousands of ft/min. Even if they are faster than you initially they won’t be able to keep climbing for long without their speed dropping low enough to become vulnerable, its a get out of jail free card.
Spoiler
If nothing else, maintaining even a slight altitude advantage over all nearby opponents will prevent the getting BnZed you keep talking about. Yes, killing enemies from this position does depend on them being slow in the first place or getting baited into going for you, but that’s the nature of flying any plane that is slower than its opponents. The BI still has absolute dominance in rate of climb and maneuverability which should make it basically invulnerable.
I mean, one can try to BnZ BI, but then what? It dodges, and now you can run in a super shallow climb. If BI counters by climbing, he’ll have alt advantage in no time, making pushing for head-on suicidial.
And BI outclimbs every jet at 7.7 while using like 40% throttle.
You can’t force him down, you can’t make him slow down. You can’t outturn him. You can’t energy trap him.
Outside of lucky spamming of high velocity stealth belt from 1000+m.away, there’s nothing that will work outside of cooperating with a few players and constantly pushing for a head-on till BI ace botches a dodge.
So you want a plane you don’t like to suffer because… you don’t like fighting it? You’re the entire reason why the BRs are messed up in the first place.
Not suffer. To be fairly mediocre. Better for one plane to be mediocre than for everyone who encounterw it to suffer. At 7.7 it’ll be unkillable anyway. But it’ll also have trouble scoring kills. Sounds more balanced than absolute domination at 6.7 ans 7.0
Leave it be so it can ROFLstomp entore lobby and the only thing 6.7-7.0 enemy team can do is land and j-out?
So basically you want everyone to suffer so BI players can kill everything with impunity? Reread your own comment and think about it.
The core issue with the BI is that its mistakes are unpunishable by props. It needs to be put at a BR where if a BI pilot commits too much, then it dies. Simple as. And that is possible at a slightly higher BR, where if a BI commits to a fight at high speed where it compresses a little, then a window for punishment becomes available. It’s not going to suffer at 7.7, but you WILL need to learn how to use it in such an environment.
I see it almost every fight these days, due to them being distributed in boxes.
Yet I have been playing around that BR and have seen close to none. I’m sorry, but there are other balancing issues in this game besides an event vehicle from years ago. Like how about the fact the Vampire and Venom are 8.0-8.7, yet they were made in 1942 (before most jets) and are slower than every jet post 6.7, yet they are designated as a fighter. That should be fixed before the Bi-plane.
The exact same issue affects both the BI and the British turn fighter jets: complete disregard of the top speeds in the calculation of their BRs.
I have been seeing TWO AT THE SAME TIME. I’ll get mind broken if I see three. Can you PLEASE stop downplaying the issue, by writing things like “nobody plays this BR”, “nobody has this plane”, “it’s an event vehicle from years ago”? What reason do you have to do so? Do you not see that this thread has 130 posts? And that this is not the only thread about the BI?
Not to mention, that the Vamp and Venom are still at least USABLE at their BRs, unlike fighting a BI as a prop, which is IMPOSSIBLE. If anything, the BI undertiering issue is greater than the Brit overtiering. How about we solve both problems with the same solution, so more people could be happy that the game improved, balancing wise?
Ah yes, the plane that takes the entire match just to get to the battlefield is comparable to a very good prop. 6.7 is the end of props/beginning of jets. Therefore highest it should be is 6.7
What the hell are you talking about? BI is virtually unkillable when facing props. It’s basically game over if it’s on opposing team. Nothing can be done.
At 7.0 BI also slaughters entire lobby. I’ve seen it happen time and time again.
Right spot for BI is at a BR where it’s not dominating everyone with ease. 7.7 jets are still nothing special and BI with 14g sustained turn and insane climb rate would do just fine.
Props end at 6.7, there is not a single prop that goes into 7.0+, and jets start at 6.7, so just because your feelings are hurt by a plane should not change that very boundary.
Props stop appearing past 7.7
BI blasts props and early jets alike. It’s completely unkillable. So 7.7 is a very generous offer.
Why do you think BI should face props, if it’s ridiculously superior to props in every metric outside of firepower and maneuvrability above 720km/h.
One again - props have ABSOLUTELY 0 chance against it. Why should it ever face them? Maybe we should play a bit, me in lets say, Yak-3U, you in goddamn He-112 B0 (I’m being generous here). And there’s way smaller gap between these 2 than between BI and Spit Mk 24 who currently SHARE same BR.
This is not correct - they were developed 1941-43 and not “made” in 1942. Maiden flight was September '43, 1st service in 1946.
If you do some research you find out that the Vampire FB 5 implented in wt is a 1948 production model with Goblin II engines which produced ~30% more thrust than the Goblin I.
The rather slow top speed for a 1948 jet is (like with the Meteors) the result of the outdated aerodynamic design of the airframe.
No, jets start at 5.7 & 6.0 - P-59 & He 162.
The BR is just the result of usable guns and the rather powerful engine.
Btw: Your BR logic makes no sense at all - so either u want to balance on combat capability in a video game or on year of introduction - there is no BR border between jets and props.
Based on introduction the 1945 Ki-100 would face 1945 P-51 H-5s - and 1944 P-51 D-20s would fight vs 1944 Me 262 A-1as and Me 163s.
Totally agree.
I even stopped playing the 6.0 He -162 and the 6.7 Me 262 A-2a due to the BI spam - months ago. It made zero sense to focus the whole match on a single opponent whilst you are forced to keep your speed near their rip speed. In addition: Hitting a very nimble and small BI with MK 108s is almost impossible.
The problem is (like with every USSR aircraft with buffed 20mm ShVaks) that Real Shatter 3.0 made them “one-tap” killers. So in the pre-buff era the rather small anno load combined with the (historically correct) low damage output had severely limited the effectiveness of BIs - but gaijin “forgot” to increase the BRs after the buff.
So it is no wonder to see BIs scoring 2-4 kills without rearming / refuelling.
Absolutely funny - someone showed me an ss of them getting a 3 kill game on their BI and him saying something like “Hard fought and proud!” like f#$k it is.
Okay, so maiden flight is 1943, that still predates most jets at 6.7, also doesn’t change the fact it is slower and is generally terrible compared to other jets. What benefit does it have? It can turn slightly faster? Wow, that matters so much when every other jet is faster than you. You know what is funny? Gaijin won’t move the A-10As up because they’re “too slow” to be in 11.0+ despite having AIM 9Ls at a BR where they are fighting those without countermeasures (9.3-9.7), but won’t move the Vampire down because it is too slow for the BR range it is at.
Also, I guess you have a point about the P-59, I completely forgot it existed. Mostly because it is not a tech tree vehicle. Then again, American and German bias: getting jets before anyone else. Gotta pander to them.
I was under the impression there was a nice boundary there to differentiate between props and jets, there isn’t so I have no other argument. 7.0 prop plane it is.
By slightly you mean it has like OVER twice the sustained turn rate? You can literally go from “enemy at your tail” to “you pulling lead on enemy” in like 14s. It is like dogfighting Fw 190 D9 in A6M5, only BI actually has a bigger advantage over its opponents, lol.
And it can sustain that turn rate in a goddamn spiral climb as limiting factor is breaking wings due to pulling more than 14G SUSTAINED.
It outclimbs 7.7 jets by a huge margin.
It’s also extremely small which makes it almost impossible to hit.
It has insane acceleration that 7.7 or 8.0 jets can’t rival.
It’s basically unkillable as a result and it can cruise for the entire match at 800km/h at 20% throttle if needed, so if one wants to, it has all the longevity in the world.
It doesn’t care if enemy has energy advantage, as it means nothing to BI, any attempt to escape it by zoom climbing means death or at least means you have to switch to panic dive.
Downsides: you have to map the throttle so you can use settings different than 0 and 100%.
It compresses hard above 700km/h.
At 50% fuel you can rip your wings because the plane wants to pull more than 14Gs sustained.
Low ammo count.
So it’s unkillable, anyone who slows down falls victim to BI. But BI can’t just engage jets going full speed/diving out. Which means it also has to work for its kills A BIT.
What are you on? Are you going off the old Wiki about the Vampire? I’ve played the A28B, and the three Vampires of Finland, Britain, and Italy. They are not instantaneous turning, they take forever to even reach 800km/h, and hate to break it to you, you’re not turn fighting in a BR that is filled with pure boom and zoom. The only one that might turn fight is the MiG 15, which is far superior to the Vampire, yet the Vampire is constantly in uptiers to begin with. And what climb rate? I’ve brought a G.55 by accident with a friend of mine while he was using the Vampire. I was outpacing him, out climbing him, and outperformed him.
Also, we get it. The BI-plane is the most OP thing ever, and should be 14.0 fighting AIM 120Bs because of how much it beats you. You don’t have to convince me anymore.