Bro the Yak-3U is criminally undertiered at 5.7 but this just isn’t true. The US planes you mentioned are both 30-40kph faster at low alt. The Yak-3U also has always been a plane that has insane sustained dogfighting performance but it can and will lose to planes that have tiny radius/instant turn rate like you mentioned vs Zeros. Planes that back up these characteristics with engine power are even more dangerous (e.g A7M, Spitfire LF mk9) forcing BNZ as the main method of attack.
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From my pov the fellow player @The_diddler2 made some good points. Even assessing the A7M2 as “Super Zero” - you forget the P-59A.
I killed (besides some K-4s😎) quite a few Yak-3Us - in classic turnfights below 3 km started at very high speeds - the speed loss of the P-59 with the first turn glues you at their six and their superior low speed acceleration does not help them if you can easily follow every turn and stay the whole time 4-500 meters behind them.
Imho you missed the pre-nerf Re 2005 - even after getting uptiered to 6.0 they were absolute monsters and killed every LFMk IX Spit without any effort . The current 6.0 version has way less power…
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Do I read it right: first there is the merge (I almost never head on in merges, not with 151 nerfed ballistics anyway), after merge p-51/47 does an an instantaneous turn (horizontal?) which k-4 tries to follow but can’t, then p51/47 goes into sustained horizontal turn which k-4, again, accepts, and loses
Huh?.. why on earth would you do that in a k-4? In a k-4 at energy disadvantage, you don’t turn, you extend away after merge while the p-47/51 turns and burns its energy, if p47/51 catches up, you split S, until eventually you reverse them, cuz both p51/47 are too heavy and don’t retain energy long term as well as k-4 does, that’s a fact
It’s a plane that’s hard capped at ~660-680kph speed. Any higher than 5.7 it’ll feel like those zeros at 5.3.
It’s only effective and “strong” vs inexperienced pilots
the cope is insane, dive speed is hardly a real limiting factor because you can catch them at low altitude so they’re just br throwing away their only advantage because the yak doesn’t care about physics when it maneuvers.
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You dive on me in a yak, I dive away in k-4. You have to stop diving at 660 kph so you disengage and start shedding energy by maneuvering. You either just bleed it or trade speed for altitude. But above 3,5km it’s stops being a good trade for you. So you’re stuck.
I can gain more speed in a dive, and either just extend away and regroup and climb back up. Or even better , I then trade the speed advantage in a steep vertical climb i.e. either gain energy advantage over you or beat you in a stall fight
This is vs spitfires but same approach works vs yaks above 3km or with energy advantage
the yak can catch the k4 easily at all but the k4s ideal altitude around 20k feet in which the yak is going to be there first due to a superior climb rate, the yak3u doesn’t have to dive on you if can just keep getting a superior position and catch you because the k4 isn’t fast at low altitude and will not be able to gain a superior position over it.
Well you don’t have to bleed it at all, just fly level in slight dive, say -5 -10 deg.
The K4 is slower the lower you go. At see level the yak3u is 30kph faster. This is compounded by the fact that the higher you fly, the faster you are.
So, just wait, the K4 might be outrunning you, but it will burn the speed and you’ll catch in a 2 minutes top.
At sea level you end up in a plane that turn better, is faster and climb better. The K4 is more or less cooked.
And while the K4 has better acceleration above 3.5k, the yak3u is still no slough either, At 5k still get lose the fight, I’m not sure about the top speed tho.
The main difference about spitfire is that they are slower than you AND they loose a lot of energy when turning. The yak3 do not.
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Whatever dudes, I tried to offer a bit of help for those struggling in german props but I guess I didn’t get the memo that the whole point is to complain about yaks, superprops and everything in between :)
In a sim context at least, I have a recorded case of P-51D5 (5.0 in SB) vs 109K4 (5.7 in SB) where the P-51D5 handily won because we started at high speed at ~5km altitude and then the 109 got spooked after a few wide turn nose-to-nose jousts get the P-51 behind him, tried to dive away and just got sat on by the P-51D5, unable to shake it from its tail. The D-30 does everything the D5 does, but better.
Said K4 on respawn won our rematch by virtue of clouds and me losing contact and going up (slowing down) rather than diving away to reset.
Okay, not trying to be mean or anything. But you have negative KD in the 109s and 190s. So even with all this knowledge and experience, the planes are still not good, no?
This is my stat from last night, (which doesn’t even include another 2 games in k-4, both match wins, 0 deaths, 1 air kill plus some assists in each game). Either zero or one bomber kill max (too risky in a k-4 anyway), don’t recall exactly
Trust me, I’m nowhere near being good, and definitely I’m not good enough to get these kind of results in a plane that’s outclassed by all of its competition.
All im saying
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See the screenshot above. My K-4 stat includes the many deaths from the horrible stock grind, the long years of struggle, and me just being really bad back then. I haven’t played k-4 for years until recently
Plus, I don’t fuss about k/d that much, I often just J outed from games if there was a dude hellbent on camping field for 30 minutes or hiding at 10km abusing auto ticket wins from back in the day. I would also often banzai rush the airfield or ram the last remaining enemy to be done with the shit
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brother you either smoking something good or ragebating
I’m not just going yapping because i kill unexperienced player so thus this plane must be really good like come on now!!here i come with secret documents
yak3u speed at low altitude in game see for yourself:
now p51h speed at low altitude: holy speed ( and bro over here talking about yes yak3u is faster then p51h come on now 😂)
f4u4b not f4u4 ight: speed at low altitude
you should do your research man your experience vs new player and because yak3u ngl play all around better for lower skill level and easy to use it might trick you into thinking its more op than what actually is
aye man look the k/d in war thunder is stupid man unless you really try hard and sweat lord
since i played war thunder i liked the dogfight the feeling of it and how i feelt after losing or wining good dogfight wishing for more because its truly fun yak3 vs 109-f4 and 109g-6 vs la7 ta152h vs p51h extra woooah man being sweat lord in game like war thunder doesn’t make sense this game is too dynamic for this and playing for the fun of it is wayy more rewarding and enjoyable man this is why i don’t understand the player who doing this yeah maybe because they want more sl or something but yeah dogfighting and doing crazy shit is way better than this sweat lording
I did some testing this morning (because I decided to finally buy and spade the P-47N-15). The 109 G-6, Thunderbolts at 4.7, and Mustang all rate pretty similarly to one another at “typical” dog fight speeds. It’s high speed handling and potential energy at the merge where they really differ.
At sea level, the cross over between turn rate for the P-47D-28 and the Bf 109 G-6 is about 500 kph. At 6000m, the inflection point is at about 420 kph. The turn rate advantage the 109 enjoys at lower speeds is on the order of 1-2 deg/s - which amounts to about a 10% advantage at sea level, and about a 7% advantage at 6000m. It’s there, but it’s not huge.
While the 109 can generate more energy at low-mid altitudes and speeds, it’s worth noting that the Thunderbolt or Mustang can bring more speed into the merge in many cases. At high altitude, energy generation favors the Thunderbolt. The 109 pilot really needs to be on their game as far as assessing the energy state of the U.S. props… and wants the fight lower and slower where it holds the advantage.
The rule of thumb for 109 pilots (“climb hard, be above them”) simplifies energy state assessment… and is particularly useful early match. However, the speed of the Mustang or Thunderbolt can make energy traps dangerous even in prolonged fights if the U.S.prop is faster than expected. The Corsair might be an ever harder fight, honestly.
ETA: I remembered I had this little gem saved…
It was very close…
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Nice clip, well done punishing such sloppy flying and just plain disrespect.
It hurts my eyes tho, watching this dude just fly directly above you, at 300m range(?!) I can’t imagine what he expected to happen other than death. Is this the kind of performance you base your overall evaluation of k-4 as a plane? I hope not
Since we’re sharing gems, how about that one, spoiler: it ends in a 800m upward snipe from a stealth belt loaded mg151/20 (note the delay between shots fired and target being hit. Honestly, yes, any other gun is easier to use than mg151s. But landing these shots is so much more cathartic that I don’t want to use any other gun for more than a match or two.
Uploading: 1761482441509.mp4…
That clip is actually from the first match I’d ever played on that map. It’s gorgeous, but it’s HUGE. It was a small lobby… and no one had spotted that 109 until later in the match when he jumped me. Not included in that clip is me flying for me life ;-).
I have flown a few matches in the 109 family… they’re not really my cup of tea. The 109 G-6 is probably my favorite of the bunch above the F-2 and E models… though I prefer the F4U-1A USMC to those. I find the F-4 to “meh” at best - It’s flight performance is OK, but it’s guns are trash and I don’t enjoy flying it. The G-2 is somehow worse. The G-6 is up-gunned and up-engined… loses a little turn, but well worth the trade. The bigger problem is the German teams… they are… not good.
The 190s do a great of making the 109s seem awesome by comparison ;-). Well, except the first Anton… I sort of like that one.
Well, german props have been like that since beta - you either go all in on them or you hate them, there is no in-between.
The learning curve is really steep compared to other nations, MEC is a must, plus you have to know everything about your plane and your key enemies as well
but once you master the way of Luftwaffe you stick with them, cuz no other plane feels right in comparison. Sure, there aren’t many good options in ranks 3-4 to choose from (g-6, k-4, ta152h, do335 a1 and ta152c3 (yes, that one) if you understand how to use air spawn to be a disgusting bully, d-9 , d-13 because no other plane is as comfortable to aim with at extreme speeds),
But those planes, Played to their strengths, and especially if you actively help your teammates, taking out enemies glued to their six, it’s a very rewarding experience
But it’s definitely a very niche one at that
Planes that require a player to be “all in” will certainly be polarizing. I don’t think the Germans offer enough to justify the investment unless you’re just a big fan of the planes themselves.
I think it’s unfortunate that some of the aircraft exist where they do in the MM/BR spread. The Fw 190 D-13 isn’t bad per se… but I prefer the P-51D-30. Hell, there are 4.3 to 4.7 planes I would take over the 190. What does the K-4 offer over the F4U-4B, LF Mk IX, or Yak-3U (objectively)? What does it offer over the G-6 for a whole BR bump and super prop bandits that come with it?
Maybe I will grow to love the 109s… but I’m not there yet. ;-)
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