Bf109s and FW190s are the worst experience i've had in this game

Actually in both these cases a single hit is super common.

And I mentioned 1000m energy trap shots, since these are not in a chase.

This literally doesn’t happen to me, with 5s burst vs single engine fighter I’ll score a kill even with 2 Breda 12.7mm MGs. I would argue that with 2xMG17 I’ll get a kill more often than not if I have a 5s firing opportunity, jesus, 5s is A LOT.

Yak-3 LITERALLY DOESN"T FUSE HE.
And even better - they do 0 damage if they don’t fuse, despite penetrating the wings and tail.
It’s a bug Gaijin decided not to fix. It’s a separate issue from Real Sh*tter 3.0.

Again, that’s literally because Gaijin decided to set plywood steel equivalent to 0,01mm to buff Soviet planes.
Do the same vs P-47 and watch it disintegrate from 1 Type 99 Mk2 hit.

Not “any”.
IMO if you land just 1, don’t expect THAT much.

As I mentioned, on reversals, I dodge narrowly. In energy traps, I butter the bread. In head-ons, I dodge smartly. In dogfights I retain situational awareness. I generally time my dodges right. But any MINOR slip means that enemy who’s spraying, will score a hit despite me moving in an unpredictable fashion - but inaccurate spraying covers multiple angles. I get hit by single shell and I’m royally gaijined.
I don’t consider this a fun experience.

They usually die on 1st vs goddamn Mg151/20, and sometimes on 2nd. That is, if I hit. And that’s a big if,. when Zero is controlled by someone smart.

Again, “feature” by Gaijin, only applies to plywood (so mostly Soviets).

Except there was no real increase in size and armor. Every US plane past P-47 was smaller. Brits just spammed Spitfire, then added Typhoon, so here you have some argument. Soviets - small planes till the end of war, and they also went from 1 to 3 20mm. Me-262 was NOT any stronger overal than Fw 190 when it comes to taking damage.

MK108 was indeed an answer to bombers.
But MK213 was THE anti-fighter weapon. Firing at insane ROF and with metric Gaijinton of muzzle velocity.

Right now it takes 1-2 hits to disintegrate a fighter using real shtter cannons.
4-5 hits to a wing or tail sounds reasonable enough. But it’s 1-2, with Type 99 Mk2 usually 1. It’s basically the SAME DAMAGE as Kugelblitz’s MK103 HE, which in turn has same dmg as Soviet 25mm, as real sh
tter basically removes any real diversity when it comes to damage, which means everything higher than 20mm is questionable to useless (4 30mm M-geschoss vs G4N1 and some HVAP = no shotdown, because they hit negligibly harder than 20mm, with 20mm I’d score 8 HE hits and that would most likely work).

People used to avoid head-ons vs Fw 190s, because in Spitfire it made no sense, when you were able to dodge and outmaneuver the German plane, and spitfire usually died while Fw 190 survived.
Nowadays Fw 190 gets 1-shot from 1500m away, and worst case scenario - it’s a trade at shorter range.

No, because even I, a Wyvern figher user, head-on enthusiast, mostly have missed.

2 dodge, then recommit, because 1 shot is needed, so even the smallest firing opportunity will end the fight.

yes but no, actually when 2 commit, 1 lands earlier/better in a lot of cases. In Fw 190 vs A6M5, A6M5 would get obliterated, while scoring maybe 1 hit on Fw 190.
Before 20mm buff - Fw 190 continues to fight.

Guy who dodges usually misses too.

It pushes them to FULLY COMMIT against most opponentst, as landing 1 shot will eliminate the enemy, and if he has worse ballistics - tough luck, no chance in hell.
There’s no “I won’t commit or recommit that guy will destroy me and I won’t do much, I’ll just set up an overshoot”. I used to be the “I’ll set up and overshoot” in Ta-152H. Then I was getting sprayed during a risky maneuver, but I was able to tank 1 random shell, so no biggie, then I was usually winning the ensuing dogfight.
Nowadays once I’m hit it’s over.

So the usual tactic is - long range firign, dodge, recommit, both die as A6M5 firing out of convergence will rip Fw 190 A8 into pieces anyway.

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Direct hit with 20mm lethal? Nah comrade, not in mother russia:

IT to the dome of non-stalinium pilots also doesn’t kill them, because incendiary penetrating one’s skull and then torso sounds absolutely survivable.

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Problem is that blackened components still eat shots. If it didn’t, then this would be fine as it could be interpreted as the canopy getting blown off. I’ve had such happen to me in Il2:GB and then died to follow up shots.

Unfortunately, the canopy is not treated as a component that, if destroyed, should stop blocking shots. Destruction (black) should remove it outright.

The shell penetrated the canopy and exploded inside his skull.

yak-9k_he_i_mine_285.05.blk (1.1 KB)

Here is the protection analysis file, if you are interested.

Lmao mate 👍👍😂😂

As a “non-head-on enthusiast” i have to admit that against JP planes you often have no real alternative to spray from very long range. Ki-84s, A7M2s or these bloody A6M5s take ages to energy trap - and most of their players are good enough to avoid these traps or are masters in “ninja-climbing” and pop out of nowhere on Pacific maps with a contrail at of 6.400 meters.

Even as my Hotas kills any form of accuracy (except with 4 km separation and very high speed) vs mouse aim players i have now at least 70 head-on kills in total 😂 - mainly due to several hundred matches in P-47s on these bloody 6 vs 6 matches on Pacific maps.

With 800 meters convergence and 3.400 rounds of API-T opening fire at 2 km distance forces 95% of the JP players to dodge way too early and the P-47 is agile enough (at very high speed) to get them when they dare to turn in.

@GGK_Brian

I acknowledge your high passion level for the game (and some stuff is worth to talk about) but it looks like that the discussion drifted away from the title of this topic.

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Bullet proof glass can also absorb huge HE round hits, with no damage to the pilot.

In reality even a .30cal hit would result in loss of vision for the pilot and he had to RTB to get it replaced.

We also don’t have damage to guns modeled or ammunition that can blow up.

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Guys, just fly the K-4. Due to current matchmaking/BR meta, it’s constantly downtiered, and it slaps anything up to 6.0 BR



I’d say it’s better to go 190-A1 or 109-F4.

The f4 is a amazing energy fighter and you can hold your own against most thing except the obvious yak3, the main weakness of the F4 is managing the engine thermos, since if you climb at full wep, you won’t have much time until your engine start to overheat. And for some reason, you cannot cool those engine since they’ll overheat 5 C earlier.

190-A1 has the best FM of 190s alongside the 190A8, and at the BR is one of the fastest has a very good climbrate and acceleration.

I honestly wouldn’t recommend the K4, too much yak3u vk107, P51h, Spitfire LF mk9, F4U-4B, F2G-1, even stuff like the Ki-84 and A7M can be a pain to face when played right.
If you go .3 higher you have the 152-H, one of the best fighter of WT, or the He-162, 800kph at 6.0 is no joke if you have a friend to help.
If you go .7 lower you get the D9, fast and decent climb rate for 5.0

Now that I mentioned the subject. The way engine thermo works in this game seems absurd.

The best example IMO is stuff like the He-100.
At the beginning of the game, you only overhead when water go higher than 110 deg. But 10mins in, you will overheat at 103.
If you continue to play without landing, you’ll reach the insane situation where the engine will overheat a 100% throttle (no wep) since the oil overheat at 87.

Funny, you have a 1/3 to 1/4 K/D ratio on those planes.

Seeing your recommendations a short reminder:

A good pilot can do a lot of things close to a miracle even in inferior hardware, but the overall competitiveness is depending on the the performance of the hardware he is facing, the quality of the involved pilots and the composition of both teams.

Your mentioned aircraft are not bad - but if you face a similar skilled enemy flying anything at the same BR your chances to win a fight / 1 vs 1 are basically gone (except with a massive energy surplus) - that’s why nobody is scared of facing German props at 3.3-5.7 in Air RB.

Therefore i am glad to see that you still feel confident enough to use them in Air RB. But to be fair: This thread exists mainly as there is a large number of experienced players thinks otherwise.

Based on my experiences based fighting together with German teams dominated by 109s and 190s is exactly the opposite. Yes, a large part is a result of the overall skill deterioration of players in Air RB, but when flying the 3.3 Rank III Me 410 A-1 or the C-3604 i am usually the last man standing.

And fighting German dominated teams in the 3.3 Hellcat (US Rank II, UK Rank III) or the French MB 157 (III, BR 3.3) is basically a walk in the park as all you have to do is to kill the few very good pilots in the 109 E-4 (not F-4) - all others share a similar fate like Noah & Co facing Larry.

In case you miss the context - a short reminder how Larry deals with things:

Edit: Replaced Wildcats with Hellcats 😂👍

I think you mean the Hellcat, right?

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Bruh, you diss the k-4 but then support your claim by stating that wildcat slaps 3.3? Maybe I missed something

Thing is, I agree about the hellcats, as well as xp-50s, yaks, early p38s, mosquitos, etc. That’s exactly why I don’t consider f-4 to be a great pick currently.

At 3km to 6km K-4 outclimbs and outperforms vertically almost all its competitors up to 5.7 BR, and a good chunk of planes at 6.0. Below 3km it depends on energy advantage but it’s very good at getting it, and then maintaining it as well.

merge (equilize energy states first if needed), upward spiral, they either stall out and die or disengage at the cost of altitude, while you keep initiative. With how poor the average skill level is in air rb right now, it’s very easy to abuse.

Beating some clueless dude in a stock k-4 trying to turn fight you isn’t indicative of its weakness

yes! you missed his correction to hellcats, which is very good at that br. But he actually is leaving out the most glaring issues, the f4u4b at 4.3 lmao, literally better performance than the k4 (same as f4u4b) but over a full br lower because it gets 6 12.7s… oh and let’s not forget about the f8f-1 at 4.7, good luck doing ANYTHING against that in a fw190a lol (it has insane low speed performance and overall climb rate. And I’m leaving out the most disgusting op place that curb stomps the k4 and that whole br bracket, the yak3u is faster than a p51h5 at low altitude and will out climb the k4 easily while out turning a re2005. the ONLY thing balancing the plane is the relatively low ammo count but it’s easier enough for 3 or 4 kills if you don’t spray. The k4 has great energy retention and I enjoy it, but it’s got 2 good turns before it is a brick and will lose a sustained dogfight to most if not all fighters around its br.

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Sorry to come off as a smart ass but that’s not how a k-4 is supposed to work.

Yak3u performs better than a k-4 up to 3km only. But unlike k-4 it overheats a lot. It can set prop pitch to 90 but then it loses climb advantage vs k-4 even at low alt. 3km to 6km it doesn’t hold a candle to K-4. Yak also rips at 660kph, on top of compessing hard even before that. So its potential energy has lower ceiling (k-4 trades altitude into speed and back better, even at low alt, although i wouldn’t wanna push my luck at sea level unless i absolutely have to)

All you need to do in a k-4 is equalize energy (in a dive by split s’ing until they compress, ,then going hard vertical) or merge and go into upward spiral until they stall out. That’s it

I flew for testing purposes the P-51 D-30 - an allegedly bad aircraft. My report - and a small quote out of it:

As i saw multiple times German aircraft mentioned - the overwhelming majority of my kills (and unwanted assissts) were 109 K-4s/G-14s and 190 D-12/13s. From my pov they have zero chance in a 1 vs 1 on equal energy states. All you have to do is to merge at very high speed.

In addition to that they are my preferred victims when flying the US-P47 D-28 or the Chinese F-47 & D-30 in full or partial uptiers and like the Yak-3/9 variants at 5.7 easy to fight in a plain A7M2 - and free kills like in my P-59.

The P-47s turn way better than the K-4 (i use a Hotas) at any speed ranges and for guys trying to setup energy traps - 3.400/4.000 little API-T friends are happy to make friends with K-4s.

That’s why i mentioned upfront:

So arguing that you can stall out rookies is exactly what you state here:


Next:

Thx - too many cats…👍

I found a decent player who could support my claim that Hellcats are Yak-3 killers - in case you use a Hotas like me. His post might be interesting for you:

P51D-30 needs a performance buff or lowered BR - #112 by Mahrs

Regarding F-4U4 & 4B - i was never a fan and refuse to play them, but my observations are similar to your description.

Exactly!

I don’t want to be a smart ass either - but even energy states kill every K-4/G-10 & 14 - just noobs follow into an energy trap and stall out below a 109.

In any case - to both of you - have a good one!

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Alright, fine, you win. So, p-51-30 beats k-4 by “going into a merge at a very high speed”, same with p-47. Apparently both p51 and p47 somehow climb better than k-4 to get that massive energy advantage, and, I suppose, they retain energy in vertical better too.

I don’t know why “rookies can be stalled out” somehow dispells my whole argument, while your “overwhelming majority of kills on 109s and 190s” is solid proof. But I’m sure you’re a better pilot than me (no sarcasm), so I’ll concede and join all my 109 brethren you killed, if only in spirit :)

wooah dude stop it rn!!
image
maybe because of your personal experience in the yak3u you said these things but simply i did this or i did that doesn’t mean its the truth
look the f4u-4 at 4.3 and the f4u-4b at 5.7 aren’t the same plane the 4.3 pushes about 2400 hp while the 4b hits near 2850 at low altitude and around 2600 up high same airframe but totally different performance

the yak-3u has a beast of an engine giving it insane acceleration climb and instant turn ability especially at low to medium speeds that power lets it close and convert energy way faster than most opponents it hits 630 km/h at 200 m and 690 km/h at 6 km pretty good ngl but!!

above 2.5 km the bf109 k4 starts pulling ahead in sustained climb and high altitude speed and oh boi you said faster than p51h i tell you p51h can hit 676 km/h at 200m and 776 km/h at 6 km so the Mustang clearly outpaces the yak-3u at any altitude

here’s the key part about a skilled players in both a re.2005 versus a yak-3u in a turn fight the re.2005 will just slip inside the yak-3u every time landing multiple hits in a single pass by the time the yak-3u starts using its engine advantage the re.2005 already has 5-6 solid shots stacked up in practical terms a competent re.2005 wins 8 out of 10 encounters the yak-3u advantage only matters if the re.2005 pilot is inexperienced

the yak-3u is great in 1v many and going turning with everything because it had great energy generation from such good engine on light airframe

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