Arcade Battle should be changed to pure tank battles

[DerLachendeMann]

The difference there is, I imagine in WOWS some players bring CV, some don’t…

In ground AB you bring your lineup of 3 tanks, everybody starts on the same foot (if you don’t take into consideration up/ downtiers, BR of some vehicles…) and early game you actually need to get kills to be able to get into a plane (if one team gets the majority of caps eventually you’ll be able to get a plane anyways, but that’s later into the game).

Once you’re in a plane there’s some luck involved too, is there only a bomber/ attacker, or does the opponent spawn interceptors, what is the position of the interceptors relative to the attacker, real close so interceptor got no chance or so far of there’s no way they will catch up…
Is there spaa on the ground…

Now if someone outright refuses to use planes & then complains about planes in mixed battles that’s on them, they voluntarily gimp themselves & I don’t see any need to adjust the game to their demands.

Basically to me planes in tank battles are just extra points, either by using them to destroy tanks or planes, or to shoot them down from the ground. And they’re fun. But then planes are what I play most, these days I even play more naval than tanks (and there you bring your own planes even in AB, I do enjoy them quite a lot there as well, with no timer on them, the only downside being the research there counts towards planes.)

[SaperPL]

@comeandseevx

This is kind of my experience playing bombers in tank AB. You have to fly around like a spastic squirrel or you’re instantly dead in the first 5s. And if you do take any fire your wing/tail falls off instantly. The tailgunners are utterly useless.

I think they can balance it out by giving bombers weaker payloads, but more hp. It gets a bit silly sometimes when I get a bomber with 10+ 1000lb bombs and I can literally just pepper the map and get 5+ kills.

The thing is, by randomising the plane types, and spawn locations the game is controlling the odds of the outcome for the air mission. I can have my two squad mates cover my back against a single plane, and they won’t be able to kill that guy off until I die, or that interceptor will spawn in front in a way my team can’t catch up. Or if it doesn’t matter for my daily taks or best squad wager etc, I can spawn in a bomber and have interceptors too far away to reach me before I drop the bombs. The game is actively trying to rig the odds and air mission is just the part of it. As long as the planes are spawned through air mission, we won’t have a repeatable way of playing planes and seeing that part of rigging.

[sardinha08]

@SaperPL

The game is actively trying to rig the odds and air mission is just the part of it.

We don’t just play against an enemy team but against the game itself. Especially when doing tasks.

[BaddDogg]

I would like a player using a plane in arcade tank to have to fly his entire time …if he chooses to quit early by J or crash bomb before time is expired he loses his tank associated with that plane ,if they are shot down it is a death for the associated tank as well…they should not be death free because they choose to take a plane. We tankers spend a lot of time getting to positions only to have a kamikaze bomb attack kill the tanker but the person flying the crashed plane gets no penalty! Actually i would prefer no planes in arcade tank there is a part of the game for planes any they should be there where a death is costly.

[sardinha08]

@BaddDogg

I would like a player using a plane in arcade tank to have to fly his entire time …

I think Gaijin has something planned to reward players that keep their planes alive the entire air strike in their 2024 roadmap, if it’s worth it, it could prevent kamikaze behaviour. But knowing Gaijin it will probably still be more rewarding to get the kill while crashing your plane.

[FlyingDoctor]

Yea, I wanna see what they’re putting in as it does sound interesting.

The main thing that drives the lawndarting isn’t so much the ‘lack of skill’ everybody puts out, it’s that there’s no point to keep using it as it’s dropped it’s payload. It’s not going to reload like it used to, where you could possibly get 2 runs in with the reloaded payload back in the days.

The ‘reward’ for staying alive in the current and previous forms has been pittance for ‘safe and sound’.

Ever since they took the smoke off the planes once you finish, it made it pointless… I used to have planes flying about the field all with smoke on to show how bad that team were at shooting planes.

Someone got peeved to have suggested that to be taken off.

[BaddDogg]

I want a death of any kind to be a death against their 3 arcade tank lifes…planes get a cheat death but the tank he kills doesnt, they’re back to square one minus that tank. I already get hit in the spawn i was sent back to by super shots. And my tank destroyer cant call artillery strikes but i can get killed by them…Im sort of whining at this point but it seems planes have been given an advantages in the tankers game that tankers do not. If you choose to fly you may be choosing to die as well, that seems fair to me just as if they were in arcade plane battles.

[comeandseevx]

The issue with bombers is really this.

1. If you drop bombs from 1000+ meters up there’s no warning and the bombs explode on impact. With how easy it is to spot in arcade you just use the bombs sights.
2. The bomb loads are RNG, but some of them are a bit overpowered. Anything with 5+ 1000-2000 lb bombs can turn the tide of the battle.
3. It’s a bit easy to get bombers back-to-back if you play well.
4. Bombers themselves are too fragile and I don’t think they get your crew skills. A single fighter can rip off your flaps, wings, tail, etc. in one spray. It gets a bit annoying when you have fighters protecting you and you still die.
5. The whole air queue system kind of sucks. You have to wait minutes sometimes just to get your own bomber in the air because everyone keeps taking it as soon as it comes up.

I think they could balance this a lot better by making bombers tankier, but their payloads are weaker. Also, it should require more kills than 3, and/or use a point system like in naval mode. I think it would be nice if you could pick your own planes for arcade like in naval.

Also, bombs dropped from 1000+ meters should still have a 2-3 second delay fuse. They shouldn’t just instantly explode on impact.

[sardinha08]

@BaddDogg

I want a death of any kind to be a death against their 3 arcade tank lifes…

If you read what I’ve been saying for years even on the old forum, I always asked for plane deaths to count as a death to players that crash them. But that would also create people asking if a death counts then let me take my own plane like in Naval AB. We would probably end with more planes in the air and for longer periods. We have to think in all consequences of any change first.

@BaddDogg

And my tank destroyer cant call artillery strikes but i can get killed by them

Heavy tanks can’t also call arty, the difference is that they can survive it more, it’s a way that Gaijin found to balance the game between different tank types.

@BaddDogg

Im sort of whining at this point but it seems planes have been given an advantages in the tankers game that tankers do not

Yes and no, and the problem is exactly that, the RNG involved. You can spawn a plane and get immediately destroyed by interceptors that spawn at guns reach or you can spawn so far that interceptors won’t be able to reach you. In my opinion that is the most important factor to make planes have a big advantage or just be a waste of time.

[sardinha08]

@comeandseevx

If you drop bombs from 1000+ meters up there’s no warning and the bombs explode on impact. With how easy it is to spot in arcade you just use the bombs sights.

You used to have the bomb whistle warning you of bombs being dropped close to your position, since they updated sounds I no longer hear them cause most other battle sounds overlap it. A change that made CAS even more OP.

@comeandseevx

The bomb loads are RNG, but some of them are a bit overpowered. Anything with 5+ 1000-2000 lb bombs can turn the tide of the battle.

Not just the bombs, at higher tier you get jets with hundreds of rockets or helicopters with 16 ATMGs, each one able to kill a tank, and if you think that a team has 16 players that means you can kill the entire team if you have enough time.

@comeandseevx

It’s a bit easy to get bombers back-to-back if you play well.

Easy and fast, I got bombed with 1000lb bombs before 2min in battle just last night and I’ve seen worse.

@comeandseevx

Bombers themselves are too fragile and I don’t think they get your crew skills. A single fighter can rip off your flaps, wings, tail, etc. in one spray. It gets a bit annoying when you have fighters protecting you and you still die.

The whole spawn system is broken and relies too much on RNG, you either spawn with interceptors at guns reach or you spawn too far from them and have a free run. Then when you are in a interceptor you either spawn and immediately shoot at the bomber or you can’t reach it on time. And finally, when you get the escort role, you either have a chance to kill the interceptor or you are too far to be able to protect the bomber. It’s not much different of playing your luck on a casino.

@comeandseevx

The whole air queue system kind of sucks. You have to wait minutes sometimes just to get your own bomber in the air because everyone keeps taking it as soon as it comes up.

That’s cause there are a lot of players waiting for it at the same time, everyone knows that most of the time it grants you some kills for free.

[comeandseevx]

@sardinha08

You used to have the bomb whistle warning you of bombs being dropped close to your position, since they updated sounds I no longer hear them cause most other battle sounds overlap it. A change that made CAS even more OP.

They whistle but its seconds before they’re about to hit the ground.

I remember before the bombs used to whistle from high altitude as well.

[sardinha08]

@comeandseevx

They whistle but its seconds before they’re about to hit the ground.

I play with a soundbar, I very rarely use an headset.

@comeandseevx

I remember before the bombs used to whistle from high altitude as well.

Yes and I could hear them on the soundbar, not since they updated sounds.

[BaddDogg]

With the tanks noise and trying to get over a hill or peak a corner I cant say whistle of any kind is gonna offset the bomb and its destruction radius. I find it also strange a bomb can kill a tank but a 75mm tank round cant hardly kill these open top gun crew exposed tank destroyers. 50 cal kills me and I shoot repeatly some times at exposed tank detroyer crews…But I love the game …I was a much better pilot than I am a tanker but thats what I like about tanks they are just more difficult to play. So in the end its the same for everybody unless you cheat and I doubt that happens (sarcasm)… And my last little whine how come when i select a starting point and die the game decides i need to start somewhere else? I know what was where I was now im back in scouting mode…?

[silicon-steel]

id like to add my tuppence worth here.
yes, planes are a major pita, especially since the introduction of 1000lb plus bombs, ESPECIALLY since the introduction of instant explosion 1000lb+ bombs.

its all far to easy to jump into a bomber and drop several 1000lb+ bombs and rack up 10-12 kills.

aside from the fact that 1000lb bomb use against troops and vehicles is completely ludicrous and bat-S**t crazy, the mechanics of such devices are p+ss poor.

you can have a vehicle behind a large rock to where one is dropped, you are just as dead as if the rock or building wasnt there, the bomb blast acts as if there is nothing whatsoever in the environment.
its shoddy and unrefined.

a 500lb bomb is every bit as deadly, but at least you have half a chance of escaping its blast area, none at all with the 1000lb+ ridiculous contrivances that are dropped.

in my opinion planes are killing the tank game, just how much more ridiculous can warthunder make things? possibly only as far as people begin to abandon the game in droves.

[SinisterIsRandom]

1000lbs are just 500 kilos. 500 lb are 250’s.
There not that big,

[silicon-steel]

maybe we could find a balance between planes and tanks, in what is SUPPOSED to be a tank battle by introducing flying SPAA’s…

but on a more sensible level, introducing areas with overhead cover would be good, there are one or two such places, but none which a 1000lb bomb recognises as cover.

i understand the need for planes to provide spaa’s with something to do, but the effectiveness of planes against spaa’s vastly overbalances any effectiveness of Spaa’s against planes.

and also, you just dont get as many points for shooting down a plane, which is a far harder target to kill from the ground, than a plane gets for bombing the crap out of a tank.

its all totally unbalanced

[silicon-steel]

how big do you need a bomb to have a CHANCE of scoring a kill?

in a tank you have deflection angles, the stallinium rivet that magically appears to render a shot completely ineffective, RNG as to where the shot lands

what CHANCE is involved in dropping a 1000lb bomb with a 200m blast radius???

there is no chance whatsoever to miss…

[O_HOgameplay]

@comeandseevx

I think they could balance this a lot better by making bombers tankier, but their payloads are weaker.

You can not balance it, this is the issue.

The issue is, that using any kind of planes are much easier than using tanks. This is just a hard fact.

I don’T care if someone kills me in a fair fight - when both of us are in tanks. Then i have a chance to fight back, as well as the enemy has a chance against me.

But, if one uses CAS, thet he will be instantly granted much greater power, while not having to use his brain.

What do you need to fight tanks with your tank effectively?
100s of map positions, 1000s of different shell types, relod times, armor profiles, gun depression stats, crew locations, th effective use of your armor.

None of this is needed with CAS! You can just download the game, and get into a plane and get kills. This is how easy it is.
Even a fighter with .50cal can pen a great majority of tanks, and not even talking about higher calibres, rockets, missiles, or bombs.
It is stupidly easy to do, and you basically just have to press a button.

At this time, i am running a little experiment. I am taking screenshots of players’ stats that kil me using CAS.
When i gte 1000 of such, i will average their tank K/D, and then, compare it to 1000 players that kill me using a tank.
We will see the difference.

At this time i have 750 CAS stats, and their average tank K/D is a horrible 0.56!

EDIT:

@silicon-steel

how big do you need a bomb to have a CHANCE of scoring a kill?

in a tank you have deflection angles, the stallinium rivet that magically appears to render a shot completely ineffective, RNG as to where the shot lands

what CHANCE is involved in dropping a 1000lb bomb with a 200m blast radius???

there is no chance whatsoever to miss…

Exactly.
CAS is just a mechanic they put in to keep trash players in the game by giving them a mehcanic that requires ZERO skill to use.
Same as arty in WoT or AW, aircraft carriers in WoWs, or mortar in Battlefield 1.
All of these have in common that they need zero skill to use, and they can use them while not having to worry about the enemy effectively shooting back.

[silicon-steel]

EDIT:

@silicon-steel

how big do you need a bomb to have a CHANCE of scoring a kill?

in a tank you have deflection angles, the stallinium rivet that magically appears to render a shot completely ineffective, RNG as to where the shot lands

what CHANCE is involved in dropping a 1000lb bomb with a 200m blast radius???

there is no chance whatsoever to miss…

Exactly.
CAS is just a mechanic they put in to keep trash players in the game by giving them a mehcanic that requires ZERO skill to use.
[/quote]

i completely agree, the times ive been outwitting a tanker, for them to jump in a plane and blat me are innumerable.

i had one situation where im in a dicker, ducking and weaving behind a rock, i get a kill on a player, he obvs didnt like it, jumped straight into a plane and i could SEE him making a beeline right for me, several 1000lb bombs later (irrespective of the FOOKING huge rock between me an the bombs) and it was game over for me, absolutely zero talent or skill required.

[O_HOgameplay]

Most of the time when i get bombed, and the bomb has a timer, and i know i will die, i just quickly leave the vehicle. Whenever possible i will not give a kill to those who do not deserve it.

I also LOVE to use CAS against those who used against me.
Whenever i have the chance, i will get into a plane and just focus them.
There is nothing better than to elliminate them 3 times in a row using their own weapon against them.