This combined with the ability to field full lineups of premium vehicles both tanks and air vehicles is why Realistic Battles is Gaijin’s bread and butter mode.
The only value Ground Arcade battles has is for people unwilling to engage with the game. Those people are irrelevant to the game’s health. People that profess to want a ground only game mode are at least doing so from a place of knowledge. They’ve played the game and found its balance wanting.
Compromise and allow these players a ground only game mode in a game mode that already is essentially ground only.
Like mentioned multiple times already - arcade is simply for people who want to engage with the game differently. Stop arguing that you know better what arcade is than players who mainly play arcade. There’s more arcade players than realistic players as quoted above.
We don’t have data on who’s spending more money on the game - arcade players can play both air and ground matches and still have the same amount of content to potentially buy as realistic players that play only air modes. You have no basis for your argument here so stop spouting such BS all the time.
The only one that was hyped (that i know of) is the Sturmtiger. And it can actually be useful.
And then, there are others, like the Hedgehog, the Zrínyi TD rocket, the Katyushas, etc. These are practically useless, but not a bad side of the game. They are mostly used for trolling, and in that role, they are very funny, and sometimes even effective.
Eventuelly everyone would, since they would run out of vehicles to research. Many people don’t grind them/grind them out lastly anyway, so i don’T even knwo what you are trying to say here.
You can just reroll them so this is not a very good argument.
Now imagine you go to top tier, and instead of using things, like amngling armor, sidescraping, etc, you are doing nothing than shoot barrel/breech, and finish off.
All you say here is basically nothing. In that situation, it would be a new experience for the player, that’s true. But you know, there is this awesome thing, called “learning”.
And even if i grant you all these, then what if the player never will even play RB?
All you say here, is that tank only arcade would be bad, because then player switching to Rb would not know how to play SPAA. Like duh, not like they are actually effective against any CAS player that knows what he is doing even just a little bit.
Gaijin then could just make a tutorial mode, just like they made for plane missiles. And tutorial videos also exist.
Yes, some skill, but not early even close to the skill you need to be competetive with a tank. You know, you don’t have to aim for a weak spot with a bomb, rocket, or even with a cannon, because you will shoot the tanks from above :)
So when their average tank on tank K/D is ~0.65, then they are “optimizing their grind”. Sure. This is some Elon Musk level of bullshit my friend.
Maybe. Or maybe not. Likely it will not make any difference.
Only fighters in Arcade. Attackers and bombers still have regular markers. regardless, this “harder to spot enemies if there are no markers” is just BS. In that case, it would be hard to use CAS in RB, where you don’t have markers…
And even then, i, a terrible pilot, with difficulties of seeing ground targets in a Fighter in the current system, even i can get easy kills with it. And again, i am just horrible with them.
Ahm, no. Not only the “reward factor” in your brain will be higher if you kill multiple targets at once, even if you get no in game reward for it.
But that 4 tanks close to each other can overrun a cap, or can be already on the cap, while someone abusing an OP spot will not win a game. That 4 tanks capping will.
Stop being an apologetic for sealclubbers.
With 10k games in each of them? Yes. Someone having a few 100 games at low tier is not a sealclubber.
And it does not disprove my argument. Those hard to do dive bombings have bomb sights…
So what? this somehow makes them require skill?
That would make a lot of crying. And you again cherrypick what “realistic” and “unrealistic” thing should be included.
Assists, and other things count towards it too. In a different thread, i posted like 3 screenshots, of a player having a single kill (me), done with CAS.
No. Those are not insults to you. If i were to call you those, then they would be insults. And i call them those, for the simple reason of them being BS and rubbish.
Andryusha is broken when it comes to its sights for people who use sight distance control, and it’s really useful especially for long range shooting.
RBT-5 got broken after it was OP initially. it’s hard to be useful with those bombs because of how they are linke with the gun - you can’t scroll back to aiming the gun fast enough if you miss with those torpedoes.
Most of multi-turret tanks are implemented in a wrong way that guns are shooting at different target points because they are wrongly linked by gun elevation while they are not physically linked as it is on Maus and M6 heavy. So it’s a micro-management issue when you want to shoot at range.
All 88s got VT AA shells at some point, but it’s stupidly implemented because you need to first rangefind the plane to set the fuse range/time and then the plane is at different position/range against you. It should either be made automatically, but that would be OP of course, or let player set it manually with sight distance control - easiest way. But even when it was pointed out in like 3 videos by Phly, and passed to devs, and it’s a really simple thing to be implemented to connect this value with sight distance control range, it’s still not fixed.
Flamethrower tanks are useless - they cannot easily damage engines, there’s no mechanic for it.
We don’t have good maps for amphibious vehicles that would actually let them cross a bigger river or something like that at places not being shooting galleries for everyone else.
Self Propelled Artillery like 2S3M / M109 that doesn’t have a way of shooting with second ballistic trajectory. Of course doing it easy way as it was in WoT is not what we want, but making controls for aiming that require some skill and figuring out on the map how to shoot would be awesome. Or something like it would require someone to use artillery call for you to take part in it and enforce it with your own shots?
There’s a lot of stuff like this - unfinished ideas all over the place.
I’m talking about relatively new players that at some point want to jump into RB while being on let’s say mid to upper mid tiers in one nation and realising that they have to grind out all missing SPGs to get the one that is rank III and is effective, and before that happens, they play RB at their current rank with low tier SPAAs and get annoyed by not being able to do anything to the planes at all both because of their lack of skill and the performance of those vehicles. That’s a friction point where some people that’ll buy into the idea of RB being the destination in this game, and decide it’s not for them and leave.
Oh sweet summer child… You reroll them and get back to the same ones multiple times until it costs GE. And on top of that - you cannot reroll seasonal challenges LOL.
That’s a separate route of making money by letting players buy into top tier, realise they don’t know how to play this game after few days, and leave it for something else. That’s also a win for a GaaS game. But having this strategy for this kind of player, doesn’t negate a strategy for making a player that is long lasting player that already went through ranks which did cost money to the company of maintaining servers for him.
Yes, exactly, because for a casual player this is a friction point if at some point he’s instantly shown that despite spending a specific relatively large amount of time, he still needs to learn something from scratch. We here are participating in the community and relatively into the game already, but for a new player having to go there and learn specifically from video tutorials or separate tutorials that are not part of natural flow of the game and its learning curve, it’s disrupting and not fun anymore. That’s what a friction point is.
The skill would be in being close enough to drop the bomb precisely, and not close enough to get killed by SPAA and turret-top guns. Of course the balance is in not letting players take out aircraft that are too strong for specific BR. In naval it’s +0.7 BR? because you’re facing huge ships, but in ground it could be -1.3 for example.
It is significantly harder to differentiate which vehicles are of what type. The problem with RB is that SPAAs don’t have lead indicator so most of the new players can’t really aim well. You wouldn’t be moving around so freely and looking for targets if you’d get constantly under fire by getting close to the ground to see what is what. Not talking about missile age ranks though because there’s some range inbalance there.
I agree with the fact that players playing “for fun” will still do such multi-kill when possible. Secondly Those targets overruning a cap probably are the valid target for scout to call CAS on them, moreover I don’t see a reason why CAS should be penalised for attacking them there - it’s exactly where team should ask for support. The point is that so planes won’t attack targets that are not detected by the ground units and harass them even before they become an important threat for them, so you won’t get killed before even getting to the combat zone.
I’m just assuming there is a reason people play low tiers while already being experienced players. From my perspective it’s simple - there are people who want to play WWII battles, and there are those that want to play only “conventional” battles before more modern HEAT and missiles start to appear, and those people will stick to rank III and IV, and they are people who will also go down to rank 1.0 to farm events with event machines.
Dropping bombs without the bomb site requires some level of skill, but since SPAA is poor in RB, that’s where it’s too easy on lower tiers. Dropping bombs with the bomb sight is easy, but surviving in a bomber that has the bomb sight shouldn’t be easy when there are other planes.
Show me your replay of you taking out a heavy bomber with a bomb sight in RB match and evading fighter planes. It’s not that it’s impossible, it’s just that you’ll only be effective once in awhile.
The game development is like that. You cherrypick things that work in your favor and over-simplify others. Why repairing the engine doesn’t require your tank crew setting up a tent, opening up the hatches and playing the animations of repairing the engine of crew out there. Or why attaching tow rope or fixing the track doesn’t force you to go out in first person to do it? Realism in games is relative.
This still means you’re doing something useful in the match and got unlucky to a point of not scoring the kill. I actually tried seeing if only bouncing shots with my armour would give me those points for aircraft and the answer is no - you have to attack and score points through that.
Yes, because you are to decide on your own that some things are rubbish without presenting any counter arguments. Being intentionally disrespectful and cutting a discussion this way instead of stating counter arguments is still an insult to the person you’re discussing/arguing with.
Those are variable timers, not VT shells. VT shells use some kind of radar/proxy fuse.
The hell?! If you set the sight distance to let’s say 700m, then the shell will explode at 700m, regardless if it hits anything.
So they can, or can’t?! Decide already!
Arty was used as direct fire quite a few times throughout battles. You can also use it was indirect fire in Arcade due to markers.
Arty in WoT works really differently, especially the shell trajecotry, and maximum range (they usually have like 1200m max range, even the 240mm M1, despite it having 20km+ range IRL.
1, They can just chose not to use SPAA.
2, They can spend that ~20 additional games to grind out SPAA, especially with the current skill bonus RP and boosters.
3, At those BRs, a rank 1 SPAA is basically the same as a rank 3 SPAA. Both useless against planes most of the time.
You are either lying, or you are just very unlucky. You can reroll like 8 times before it will cost GE. And you are trying to tell me, that every single reroll is giving back an SPAA mission?! Come on!
You can just… you know… not do it?!
This is just dumb in every layer. You basically don’t want a TO mode implemented, because there are some SPAA missions. (very few actually)
Where did i talk about buying your way to top tier? Please quote the exact line!
I was talking about the fact, that there is a BR range, where suddenly, you can’t really angle your armor, because everyone uses HEAT or AP(FS)DS.
DAFUQ are you talking about?!
You can drop bombs from longer ranges too, and i am not even talking about bombers with sights.
Then, ihavent even talked about rockets, with which you can just snipe any SPAA cout from 2km, while they literally can’t do anything to your plane. Many times, you can even go very close, and shoot them with your cannons. You will die 70% of the times, but that’s worthless if the enemy SPAA also dies.
And if there are more than 1 planes up, it will overwhelm SPAAs.
You can even do that in arcade at middle BRs. I have done it a few times with ease. SPAAs are just too weak. You need a single hit with a cannon to kill the SPAA gunner, and you have at least 4 high RoF guns on your plane, so killing the gunner is very easy. After that, you eat them alive. As i said, even if they can inflict fatal damage to your plane, most of the times you still can shoot, even after your plane is “destroyed”.
Why?
1, CAS forces you to camp, and take less risks. Sitting on a cap point makes you an easy target for CAS, therefore you are less likely to take that risk.
Every single match, where there are no/very few CAS, magically, you can freely move on the map, and the matches are much more filled with action.
2, Because it requires no skill, and extremely unfair towards the tanks. If you still can not understand it, then please visit a doctor.
Nice dream, but maybe return to real life.
Yes, there is. getting easy kills. Nothing more. If you don’t understand the concept of sealclubbing, then here is a good read for you about it:
Those are not really sealclubbers.
Sealclubbers are rank 1-2, playing the lowest BR with a full lineup of strong vehicles.
People will not grind events with those. With the amount of battles at rank 1 they have, they could have grinded every single event like 10 times. And i didn’t even mention, that virtually none of them has a single game with a rank 1 event vehicle, you your apologetics here failed spectacularly.
Like this guy (and he is awfully bad even at sealclubbing):
Yes, some level of skill. And with that level of skill, you would be helpless if you were to play a tank.
So even you say, that you need a plane to counter CAS… Shifting the goalposts…
1, i am not playing in RB.
2, I have not unlocked such bombers, because i don’t play Air. The only times i play air is when a CAS player kills me with planes, then i get into one too, and make them taste their own medicine.
3, What would it even show?
You still don’t get what i want to say with this?!
I am pointing out, that you use this “human factor is realistic, and would balance CAS (it would not)”, yet other times you go completly in the opposite direction.
DAFUQ you even mean by that?
I did present valid counterarguments to your rubbish rambling.
Hmmmm. Someone has bad memory. Let me refresh it:
1, as i said, i presented more than enough counterarguments, that are actually meaningful
2, i did not cut the discussion
This is valid currently, but I’ll still have games where there’s little to no CAS, so I doubt everyone will suddenly flock to just spamming aircraft.
I’m pretty sure there’s more than enough people that want to research Ground branch and like to (only) play tanks.
They would get even chances by choosing their “role” before queuing up.
I never said that, I just pointed at a fact that in rookie’s eyes some perfectly balanced vehicles can look brokenly OP, but that’s just because of his lack of skill dealing with that particular vehicle.
True, but the game gives you enough tools to learn by yourself, you’ll have penetration simulator in the hangar and in Arcade you’ll have pen indicators on your scope, so learning weakspots of tanks you often come across isn’t that hard or time consuming.
Depends on what you want to learn, most vehicles will have different cons (slow, long reload, awful shell, etc.), so getting past those cons will make you better.
Less skilled players shouldn’t be given crutches just to feel better.
I know it’s hard to learn all the maps, spots, vehicles, etc. but if you take the easy way out (revenge bombing) all the time, your learning process will get stalled out, since you know you might be able to remove the threat in a much easier way.
What do you think VT Fuse Shell stand for? Variable Timed Fuse Shell. My point is that for years there wasn’t a way to set it in an ergonomic way that made sense to hit aircraft.
Again, you have no idea what I am talking about. The point is - plane is going towards you and you want the shell explode at those 700m lets say. It is now at 1500 meters away from you. If you use rangefinder, it takes a second to give you this 1500m distance and it sets the fuse to 1500m, so already lets say the plane is 1000m away from you. You fire the shell and the shell passes next to the plane after a second, now the plane is at 700m from you and the shell exploded 1500m away from you. That is the stupidity of using a rangefinder to set a fuse on AA VT shell
I checked it and it still requires you to use rangefinder to set the fuse. Which even when attacking a ground vehicle is stupid because it will explode in front of it if you rangefind it. If you could correct it with scroll wheel, you could set it to explode slightly behind those vehicles for example if they are open-back SPGs. And yes - this is historical that those could be manually set because they were - there was a magnetic device for setting the shell fuse time before it was rammed into the gun.
The cannot. My point was it would be useful/advantage of this vehicle to be able to easily set engines on fire with flamethrower. You picking on the wording here is exactly why I think you are kid that you go back to school if you argue about the wording by not understanding a sentence can be built like this.
We’re talking about the hype here - that we’re starting to get vehicles that could do the second ballistic trajectory meaning the first one is you’re firing your gun roughly forward and getting the most velocity from firing the round out of the gun and it’s going roughly horizontally, the second one is when you’re firing roughly upward and the round goes up and when it goes back down it regains velocity.
You should be able to shoot a target in close range as in the game with both first and second ballistic trajectory. OF course the 20 km+ ranges is where you won’t have 2 separate trajectories. Anyway you can’t shoot upwards because shells disappear and because there’s no mechanic/equipment to aim with second trajectory.
Some of us were hoping that once most of the nations have them, there would be a mechanic for that.
They can, but some of them won’t. It’s a lost opportunity to make money. And you have no idea how the game development of online GaaS games work. Again - a friction point that bleeds retention of players before the convert to paying players.
I never said that. I said that rerolling isn’t always giving you what you want. For example missions that are about you winning and you may not want that. My point is that it happens often that you reroll multiple times and go back to one of the tasks that you didn’t like and you already had. And at that point you have in example using SPAA. It is often that you’re bouncing between two or three things that you don’t want to do, for example being in the top and winning, or having to hunt for 28 or so light or mediums etc. Again, the point is that if you keep rerolling you often land on something you don’t want to do.
No you don’t. Seasonal Challenges are the ones that open up at specific date or specific level of Season, the one connected with Battle Pass. What I think you’re thinking about are special tasks which you buy in warbond shop as opposed to having the daily ones - yes, you can reroll special tasks, but these are not seasonal challenges.
Yes, this getting dumb in every layer because I have to explain to you how this game works lol. And no, it’s not that I don’t want a TO mode implemented. It’s because gaijin doesn’t want and most likely will not do it and it is wasted effort to ask for this instead of solving the problem in a way that both sides (we and gaijin) will be happy with the result…
Fair point, I got so tired of reading through all your BS and rubbish that I must’ve fell half asleep.
Exactly what I said. I cannot make you read it properly in your mind if you don’t want it lol. You are not accepting in your mind that a game developer may not treat players in a way of “if they don’t learn, fuck them, it’s their choice” but rather figure out how to lead them exactly where they want the players to be between knowing everything and knowing nothing, but BY AVERAGE or by SPECIFIC percentage of players. Spreadsheets for retention and monetisation plans are huge thing and you want a simple answer to a complex problem so you are not accepting that a developer can have more complex way of thinking about THEIR product than you as a player.
Yes, you can, but then you loose precision, except for the bombs in top tiers where you have computer for that. I’m focusing on WWII mainly here though, modern equipment would obviously require additional balance like BR offset for planes.
SPAA should be able to DETERR a plane before it gets to 2km of range to be precise enough. That’s the whole problem with both AB and RB that SPAAs are not a deterrent. In naval SPAA guns are a deterrent, but the targets are huge and BR offset balance goes different way than I would expect in ground battles.
Without markers, there should be some element of surprise because you don’t really know how many are there at the specific time, maybe that’s why it makes sense for RB to not have a list of enemy vehicles. Also tanks could shoot at you with their turret top guns. Of course more planes against single SPAA and nothing else is going to get the SPAA killed, but you’re talking about laboratory conditions because you’re thinking of how it works like now that if you play air mission and go solo vs the ground, you don’t have opposition in the air. But the thin is, if anyone can use it at any time once he have enough points, maybe your team will get this competitive edge at the start by pulling out one or two planes, but then the enemy team will pull out theirs and it won’t be like with air mission where those whole CAS runs are defined by RNG and who clicked first etc.
Both camping and rushing together on a point should be scouted to be marked for CAS. The point is to not CAS players before they engage.
It will require skill with proper balance, but you’re just choosing to pick and separate a topic without taking in context other things that I already explained again and again.
I do - go check my matches. I’ve got a premium 1.0 german halftrack and premium 1.3 italian light tank, and I’m starting off my lineup with those and farming events mindlessly often scoring between 4000 and 5000 points in each match. That’s a simple way to quickly grind the event with no effort while relaxing and just shooting quickly.
Yes, that is correct? What is your point here? We have forced fuse time, if someone hits you from the high altitude, then yes, you cannot run away. The problem here is that there should be some visual indicator that warns you about the bombs going close to you like it is with artillery, as well as there can be a different balance of BRs and cost of bombers etc - it all can be done, but you choose to assume that nothing can be done in each argument about a separate topic/sentence you pick to disagree with.
I never said that. Read what I wrote again. I said is that it’s too easy (no skill as you said) in early ranks because SPAA and turret top guns can’t effectively hit the planes. Put rough lead indicator like in AB and the balance will shift the other way.
Shows that you have no idea what you are talking about. I’m talking about the fact that you say it’s no-skill to drop bombs with a bomb sight - yes, that’s correct - but using a bomber with a bomb sight in combined arms battles means you need first to get to the drop zone and not get killed before you do so, and there will other players in planes unless you’re the fastest one on the ground to score points for the bomber, but that will be a one-time run if you can’t reload ammo. Both evading interceptors and running away will do it harder. So my point is that bombers that have bomb sights are the ones that cannot really move well to evade fight, so it’s a trade-off, and those are not gonna be that useful in a game where fighter pilots can camp and wait in the air for other players to pick heavy bombers.
No, it is what you don’t get. The game won’t be 100% realistic everywhere and it doesn’t need to. A developer exactly cherry picks where he wants to represent a realistic behavior with some mechanic and where he doesn’t. My point isn’t that it should be realistic because the game has to be realistic. My point is that it should be realistic in this specific case because this is a missing puzzle in dynamic between SPAA and CAS if we balance it otherwise with just pure vehicle mechanic performance stats to be realistic. There is both historical vehicle stats factor and human factor in such system that did make the specific dynamic between planes and ground targets covered by SPAA. If the game didn’t care about making SPAAs realistic in vehicle parameters, then probably we could just crank up the numbers to make the balance exactly where its supposed to be.
You need to be aggressive to get the points for air mission, you can’t be passive and just be close to frontline and not hit enemy.
insert meme again…
You did put some arguments where you had them, whenever you don’t understand it or have no counter you say it’s rubbish. That’s a repeating cycle…
But even if you would be right here, that is probably a gamble that a game developer wouldn’t risk. Because right now the data says there will be a balance between the roles, but then at some point there won’t be balance and the matchmaker will clog up. Unless you want it to be like “what I’d rather do” and we’re back to square one of choosing by random who gets lucky.
Again - it’s about the whole population of players and not that you can do it. It’s about picking casual players who will potentially spend the money in the game and catering to them with a good time and not about hardcore players. Hardcore players are there for retention so the ones spending money have someone to play with and see the game is not dead.
Where to hit other vehicles, where are their weak spots and how they work. Of course you can analyze that in the hangar, but it’s not the same as seeing what the players do with those vehicles when they encounter you, how are they positioned etc. Real experience beats the armor analysis.
again - GIT GUD attitude doesn’t make money in GaaS games world. Catering to casuals does.
Taking no risk is their choice, but it doesn’t change the fact most modes we have currently are decade old and in total shambles.
Something will have to change, sooner or later.
Sure thing, but the fight is always easier when you know some stuff about the enemy vehicle, like how good their shell is against your armor, how fast they reload, etc. and the best thing about this is that you don’t need to be hardcore player to learn it fairly quickly.
I’m sure most people will find some kind of fun in overcoming obstacles like these and making themselves better in the process.
You might want to cater to casuals, but you simply need to be careful to not dumb it down too much, because you’re running a risk of it becoming boring/annoying for people, which isn’t good as well.
The thing is, the dev team that created the game in the first place is definitely already doing other things and the team supporting the game now is in a mode of squeezing money out of it and not risking breaking things. That is why a lot of potentially revolutionary vehicles that would change the meta will be implemented in a way to only be meme vehicles, because otherwise that’s a risk of reshuffling whole BR tables.
That depends on whether the new players will see it as a problem or not. Most of the players discussing the game are the long playing ones, while actually GaaS games are focused on short term player experience and converting them to paying ones quickly. Of course if all long term players would leave the game, it could be noticeable that community would die, but to organise a strike like this is a big challenge. Gaijin has numbers on each such “strike” and knows how many new players are coming and leaving the game, and also there are bots faking being players filling out places when there’s not enough players, so there’s that.
I wish for something to happen, but it’s either that there is a strike that will make like 90% of GFAB players stop playing, or we play their game and ask for things that are willing to do. And they already stated multiple times that tank only mode is a no go for them.
You can’t break something that’s already broken.
But yeah, they’ll keep milking it as long as possible until shit hits the fan.
That’s their goal, make people buy 2-3-x premiums for 150-200€+ until they have enough experience and playtime to realize game modes they’re playing have obvious flaws that are lingering around for years, or even worse, for decades.
This is why they acted so quickly and strongly to Steam review bombings, and actually changed the stuff they were always adamant will stay as is.
As I said above, they stated the same thing for many things in the past and guess what, most of those were actually implemented because enough people were publicly shaming Gaijin because of their anti-player actions.
Implementation of mechanic is one thing - a lot of things may have been implemented already to be tested internally on their closed servers to see if they mechanically work, but the team that is focused on retention/balance/monetisation may not give a green light to something because of not knowing how it would reshuffle things. Having an implementation internally to test something and being ready to roll something out is a different thing.
Good example is Lego releasing some parts that have 4 digit numbers in the part design ID while for many years there are already 5 digit number design IDs - they had those designs at least on paper for years and only now they decided to actually start manufacturing them when competition started making similar elements.
Do you have examples of those? I feel like those might be things that are more on the surface like specific mechanics and default loadouts of vehicles than game being mainly combined arms in ground forces.
Still, I wish there was a mode that is tank-only, but at the same time I don’t think a combined arms arcade mode should go. it should be fixed, because I for one would like to play a combined arms arcade mode that is not based on RNG planes.
Yes, i had a brainfart there. I meant to say fixed timer shells.
Because those were used against high flying bombers, with awfully low efficiency. IRL something like 1000 shells from those calibre ranges (~75-128mm) were needed to shoot down a single bomber.
When the allies developed shells with radar fuses at the endo of the war, the required number of shells to shoot down a single plane dropped bellow 100 (i don’t know exact numbers). They became more than 10x more effective.
So if i set the distance to 700m, then it will not explode at 700m? Yeah, i am the one who does not know what i am saying. Sure buddy.
Because, IRL, they were implemented with a large battery of many guns, with a fire control unit, that detects where the bombers come from, their distance, and then calculate where the guns should aim and what timers they should set. With this system, as i said, over 1000 shells were needed to destroy a single bomber.
Which is an instant in Arcade. Yes, it is an issue, that you can not use this against anything moving, since the distance you set is not going to be correct, since the enmy is moving. Adjusting with scroll wheel however would not make it anyway more effective. Since the guns that have these shells usually small calibre (up to 88mm), all having less than 1kg explosive mass, meaning, you would have to make it explode a meter or less from the plane, which is not different from directly hitting it.
Even the 155mm proxy shells have a large chance to either crit, or just get a “hit” when 10kg+ explosive explodes 3m away from the plane.
If you hit the front of an open back vehicle with HE, it will take OP damage…
Yes. Btw, do you have any info about their accuracy? Like if you set it to 500m, what is the error? Like it will likely explode anywhere from 490-510m for example. Because even with that accuracy, it is basically useless aaginst anything. If in game it explodes exactly where you set it, then okay, but even then, it would not be any more useful than a standard HE shell. VT shells are good, because they are automatically destruct thanks to the proxy fuse, so you don’t have to deal with this ranging and calculations.
Nice insults again. Maybe you should go back to school to learn using actual arguments instead of insults.
See? it works both ways buddy.
It could be implemented, but i doubt it would be used often, just by the shell traveling up and falling back time, especially in a game, where you play in a tiny map with tanks moving.
It would be an interesting mechanic, and it could certainly get kills, and it would be even funny in a way, so i support this idea. However, i think post people would just continue to use them in the way they currently are.
I mean i can get why winning is an issue if someone needs CAS to be effective in a match…
Often? Like how often? I never had any problems with it, and there are many mission types that i reroll. As i said, you can reroll mayn times.
So, because some people dont like certain missions, then there should not be a tank only mode, because SPAA missions would be useless. How absolutely idiotic, and selfish. Like this argument is dumber than anything Elon Musk said, and that is a bloody achievement.
And of course, let’s just ignore the fact, that then you can just always go to the mode with CAS, do the mission, and return to the skill mode.
To be fair, i don’t want the entire Arcade mode to be turned into tank only. I want a second, separate Arcade (and also Realistic) mode without CAS, and also keep the current ones with it.
What the actual hell?!
So you say, that you can’t just not do a seasonal challenge? Or what?!
Like you know, all these i did choose to ignore, because i don’t play that mode/vehicle type.
Where did you had to explain me how this game works?
You just shot yourself in the foot so hard with this. If you were to have to explain me how this game works, i would be a a worse player than you. Yet, in every metric, i am better. Better win rate, better average score, better relative team position, better K/D.
It is a wasted effort to ask for equality and fairness?
There are 3 sides at least. There is Gaijin, the tankers, and CAS players. With the “combined” mode, you can not make everyone happy. You can’t make CAS balanced, and even if you nerf it to the ground, and make it almost useless, then it is still going to be unfair to those few that gets killed by it.
And it is also going to be unfair, because there are people who want to use CAS. And if they want to use it, they should have the ability. But then i should also have the ability, to say, that i don’t want to play that mode, and have a mode, where you only can play tanks.
I do not want superiority, i want fairness and equality. If you have issues understanding that, then maybe visit a doctor.
You mean your BS? I am talking about sensible things, and you ramble about “there are SPAA missions, so there should not be a tank only mode”…
Language barriers exists my dude. English is not my native. You might expressed yourself in a way you understand it, but it might not be for everyone. You could have expressed it in a different way, but you did choose to just throw an insult.
Yet, there is CAS in the game, which is “oh, you don’t want to learn to play with tanks? No problem, use CAS, and you will get easy kills”.
And i don’t know. Maybe this is just me, but bombs… Bombs are like these “go boom things”, right? I mean, you don’t have to hit anything prcisely with them…
Now, seriously, you don’t have to be precise with bombs.
How, when many SPAA rounds self destruct at 2km or so? But let’s for the sake of the argumnet give you, that they don’t. These shells have the speed bellow 1000m/s. but again, let’s grant all of them 1000m/s. A plate at 2km, has 2 seconds to turn a tiny bit, to just evade all the shells. It will not deter them, even if your human factor gets implemented.
Because why would they, if they are just useless?
Ships have many AA guns aimed automatically with basically infinite ammo. Ships can also survive even medium/larger bombs directly hitting them. SPAAs can’t survive those, even if they miss by many meters. They also have to spare their ammo. They usually also have 1-2 guns, and those, that use clips/magazines, usually every cannon gets to reload the same time, giving the plane many seconds, where the SPAA can’t shoot back. Ships have more AA guns, with many having different calibres, and clip/magazine sizes, so there is likely at least a cople of them ready every moment. And some of them are even radar assisted if i am corrrect, even at WWII levels (correct me if i am worng). Many ships also have access to proxy fuse shells as low as 3.7 BR. In ground, the lowest BR with said shells is 8.0, followed by the next at 8.7 and 9.0. These proxy shells are also 40/57mm, while on ships, they are 100mm+ with multiple guns and fast reload.
These ship proxy HE shells are also have the same effectiveness against ships, as the normal HE, but in ground mode, arty calibre proxí HE detonates in front of the enemy, unlike in naval, where it actually hits it.
1 word: tracers.
Yes, you can get lucky and get a kill, or damage the plane, but a single, usually low calibre gun is not going to do anything significant most of the time.
You are talking about laboratory conditions here. What you say here might work, when the 2 teams are balanced. Most of the time, they are not.
One team will start to lose, and will usually have less room to move, and less players left, and even those likely with second or 3rd spawn, while most of the enemy team is still in tact with usually first spawns.
In this case, the winning team can allow to spawn in CAS, and kill the losing enemy.
However, the losing team needs every player on the ground to counterpush, and in those cases, they can not allow to have either SPAA, nor fighters to shoot down enemy CAS.
The only way for them, is if they themselves spawn with CAS, and annihilate the enemy team. However, in your example, it is a very high gamble. because the winning team can afford to spawn with 3, or even 4 fighters against a single bomber, while the losing team can barely afford a single momber, let alone escorts for it, since losing a plane means losing a spawn.
However, if somehow the losing team manages to use a CAS to clear a path, it usually means, that a once complete lose turns into a complete victory. And the thing that turned around the match was not a good player using skill , but many times, a lucky noob pressing the SPACE bar a few times.
it is extremely unfair for a few reasons:
1, the winning team used skill to get to the point they currently are. It is fair for them to win that game, because they are better than the enemy team.
2, the enemy team, consisting by likely worse players turns around the game with an unfair mechanic, likely by a single player who can’t have a positive K/D with tanks, even at low tier manages to turn it around not by skill, but by luck.
3, there are likely some players in the previously losing team, that could have gotten a few more kills from the enemy, but since tjose enemies are now destroyed, the momber player effectively steals kills from players that are using skill to destroy tanks.
This is literally like this:
“should be”. but will be? And you still did not disprove my argument explaining to you, that CAS players will still bomb the unscouted tanks regardless.
Some skill, but nearly not as many as with a tank.
???
You might do it. but most do not. They are sealclubbing because they suck at anything higher than rank 3.
You are still doing apologetics for a bad thing.
The point is that it requires less skill, if any.
What do you have to leanr with a tank, to be effective, and what do you have to learn with CAS?
With a tank:
1, 1000s of weak spots
2, 100s of shell stats
3, 100s of map positions,
4, 1000s of overall tank stats
5, aiming
6, how to use armor
7, tactics against 100s of other vehicles
What do you need with a plane?
1, the ability to press a button
Many times you can not evade it. Like being surrendered by enemies, where moving out of your position will kill you, or repairing engine/transmission/tracks, healing crew.
There are also many cases, where you can notleave a cap point, because an enemy is on it, or you have to cap it as fast as possible.
With arty, you can confidentally sit in the strike with anything that is fully enclosed with 25mm+ armor, and expect surviving. With heavy tanks, you can also survive direct hits into your side, or engine deck.
None of this is true with even the smallest bombs.
Also, good luck having a notification with rockets, or gunfire.
Which still does not solve the no skill needed issue.
I don’t care if i am playing with a fully stock M48 against an Object 279. If it kills me, it used skill. Likely not much, but still orders of magnitude more, than a CAS would have needed. I can also shoot the barrel/breech, and 1shot it from the side, even with APCR.
Because nobody have presented anything that would solve this. If somebody were to present it, then threads would ask for those to be implemented, instead of a tank only mode.
Every tank has lead indicators in AB against planes. So you say, that a lead indicator can make regular tanks, often with only a 7.92mm MG effective against CAS, while the DEDICATED vehicles are useless.
You say all this, like in RB, you can’t hit anything with a bomb without indicator. And yet, i am the one who does not know what i am talking about. Sure.
Now, several issues.
1, you can not guarantee to have an enemy fighter in air. I already explained why.
2, even then, bombers have deffensive guns, that often can shoot down a plane, or delay the bomber’s destruction for enough time for it to drop bombs.
3, bombers spawn basically over the battlefield, so they have to fly only for a very small time to be able to drop bombs.
Okay, now i get it. See? You can do it without just throwing insults.
the issue is, that i have already explained, this human factor would be largely ineffective at balancing, and very hard to implement.
This is just 3 that i have documented out of the countless examples. All 3 had a single tank kill, me.
All the other air kills they had happened after they killd me.
And none of these 3 players have a positive K/D.
But mechanically it was done in a way that there was a separate (not connected to a rangefinder/gun) that let you set specific fuse time. It would make sense in the game to have a way of setting it and easiest way they could do it, would be to connect it to sight distance control setting through a scroll wheel because that number value already exists in the game.
I never said that. What I mean, which should be obvious, is that you should be setting the range that you are expecting the plane to be at when the shell reaches it, so it has to be lower range than the rangefinder value. Also assuming same distance, it would mean that what? you’re only shooting at the planes when they are exactly above you because earlier you cannot have the fuse time different than figured out through rangefinding? That is my point. It’s not an altitude fuse, but a VT fuse.
But if you are “near-missing” the plane strafing at you, figuring out how much closer you have to set the fuse could let you do something. Anyway - with scroll wheel, you could be using it against open top vehicles right behind the cover/hill. Not sure about effectivenes - like you said, might need to be really close, but often it is really close and rangefinding will make it explode in front.
Not if it’s behind an edge of the hill, or rocks on finland, or covers on sweden. With Brummbar or Sturmpanzer yeah - you can use the trajectory, but with others, not. This is where it could be useful.
If it’s like you said, in ±10m range, the usefulness will depend on how close it has to be to deal damage. Taking care of something like sturer emil or dicker max when he’s reloading in cover when you can send few shots there - could be useful or could be not. My point is in that we don’t know because implementation of setting the fuse is stupid, and I’m not the only one pointing it out - Phly made 2 or 3 videos about it and the suggestion was passed to devs for it to be handled.
aaanddd at some point I realised all the rest is rubbish because you want 100% way of being able to defend against CAS and it’s not going happened and I’m tired of this back and forth when you know everything and when I show you that you’re in the wrong, you bail out with even more stupid edge cases that don’t matter overall, what matters is the average experience…
I don’t deny it. But then there should be also a way to set the distance without setting it a time fuse.
So you can either set fuse (and zero your gun to that distance), and a second mode, where you just zero the gun, but don’t set time fuse (so it will have impact fuse).
Effectiveness woill be very low. Also, these shells are 75-88mm, so they essentially need a direct hit even on an open top.
Even at this distance, it is not a 1shot, and this is the 88mm gun against a fully open top from ~1-2m.
Sure, it would be useful in that 1 in a 10k game.
Don’t get me, i would welcome this into the game, it just would not be usefuly often.
Show me? Where? All you do is go on a rambling.
I bail out? those edge cases are the majority, but okay.
I don’t know who had one of his main argument the “BP challenges, that often give back the exact one you rerolled” “argument”, and others like that :)
Also, i bail out, yeah, because you said anything to the rest of my comment.
Oh wait, you just bailed out. The irony.
I dont want only battle tanks in GF AB. BUT! AA should be get a buff. It can not be, that light tanks without a radar are better AAs as the real AAs with radar and following radar.
S38 and Begleitpanzer are some examples.
Within the AAs there should be a difference to, these with search radar MUST have a better standing as these without it, like Strela!
