Maybe if it didnt get the twin racks.
That way it was 2+6 or 4+4. But 6+4 would be very strong, though 13.0 is so badly compressed right now that it probably wouldnt make a difference to what BR it was at.
f2 and kfir c10 get aesa radars at 13.0.
and kfir gets fox 3s
Kfir does get Fox-3. But it only has 4x hardpoints and no IRCCM. That is how its balanced.
2x Python-3 + 2x Derby really isnt that impressive of a loadout for the BR.
thats only stock. it gets 4 derbies
Which still isnt all that great tbh. Sure the AESA + Derby is good, but that is still a fairly limited loadout for the BR if you compare to pretty much any other supersonic ARH slinger at the same BR. heck. the Su-27/Su-33 is probably still the bigger threat over the course of the entire match
1 Like
eh all other fox 3 planes other than f-14 are limited to 4 arh missiles or less at 13.0. but the difference is that kfir c10 is fast as hell
Only the FA2 is limited to 4 missiles total (when running max ARH). The rest have 2+4 or 4+4 at that BR. Which makes quite a difference overall in terms of flexibility.
F18C has no place at 13.0 with the whole new Fox 3 spam at 13.3 unfortunately, and certainly not at the same BR as SU27 or 33, which are much much better at what F18 does. We need decompression before doing non-urgent movements like this.
I’m sure having it curb stomp 12.0-12.7 is healthier for the game
I’ve no problem killing F18 in a Phantom, F1C, Tornado, MiG 23, Bison, MiG 29, F14, you name it. They are not unkillable and they certainly don’t have the best weaponary. And I’m not saying this like you can kill an F18 with a prop with the F18 player is bad, I’m saying that it’s a Sparrow slinger so they have about the same chance to kill you as the 12.0 Phantom. Funny enough, a MiG 29 has a much higher chance to kill anything with their 27ER, which is more of a guaranteed kill than anything any Sparrow slinger with no IRCCM Fox 2 has.
The arbitrary lesser evil mentality doesn’t help in the slightest as it is just about pushing compression somewhere else.
I don’t really care. Personal skill differences is all that causes this to happen. You, if you are good at the game, are very aware that the F/A-18 fully outclasses the planes you mentioned, and that’s just the F/A-18A model. The Cs have datalink 7Ps that are extremely oppressive.
Very close to it while having strong FMs and strong avionics (read: strong everything besides speed) to back it up.
Massive difference between a F/A-18’s radar and a datalinked 7P than a F-4S firing a 7F with its rudimentary PD HDN radar.
MiG-29’s R27ERs are more or less the same lethality in most engagements because the inherent strength of these missiles comes from the fact you are forced to take actual advanced evasion to them rather than just spamming the chaff button like earlier missiles. However the MiG29 only gets 2. The F-18C gets 6. The F-18 is also more likely to win a dogfight after the merge than the MiG-29, has a far superior RWR setup to evade threats, and its own radar is far stronger.
I know the F18 is better than most of them, which is why it’s found at a higher BR. If we move it to 13.0, things like the MiG 23 or F111 would stop seeing it, which are already in Sparrow BR, but then the F18 would start seeing things like the M2K, F15E, Grippen, etc. The difference between all these 14.0 is much much greater than the F18C to any 11.7 fighter.
We all know Sparrows are bottom of the barrel, DL makes them more usable but in the end, that is pretty much the only difference it has over the 7F you can find in the 12.0 Phantoms. Is it better? Yeah, not by much, but it’s also at a higher BR.
Also, it makes sense that it will have strong avionics given that as you said, it lacks in the power department, which has a direct impact on the performance of its weaponry. A Phantom has more reach than an F18 because it has a higher top speed at high altitude, let alone the MiG 29.
And none of what is mentioned here would make it warrant a BR increase with the way compression is today, strong avionics, poor performance and average loadout is standard for the BR it’s at.
Yeah there is a difference in the sense that you can relock your target, but the performance of the missile is the same, and the reliablity is not a night and day difference when it comes to headon shots as well as shooting from below. Everyone dodges these two missiles the same exact way, either roll or multipath, because aside from the seeker they have pretty much the same flight characteristics. Again, is the 7P better? Yeah, not by much, but the F18 it’s also at a higher BR.
I have plenty of experience with top tiers accross all nations, and I can tell you 100% that the 27ER is the best A2A any fox missile in the game right now if you can keep a lock. You are comparing apples to oranges so quantity doesn’t matter, anyone would take 2 Magic 2s instead of 4 9L any day of the week, and I would take the less 27ER over more sparrows all day long, specially if they come with HMD.
Sure the F18 would win the turn fight if neither of them killed each other first, but the MiG 29 accelerates so much faster and the top speed is almost 300kph higher than that of the F18, there is no need to have a dog fight if the MiG doesn’t want to.
In the end, both the F18 and MiG 29 are balanced aircraft with different strengths and weaknesses, and honestly I don’t think either of those should be facing 14.0 (or the current 13.7 or 13.3 for that matter) at all. Nothing personal, I usually agree with you on pretty much anything but on this one lol.
The issue is obviously BR compression, as I’ve stated. The game would be healthier by uptiering the F18A to 12.7 and uptiering the F18Cs to 13.0 and giving them 9Ms.
No, it isn’t.
No, we don’t. Sparrows are extremely overhated.
WORLDS of difference by being able to relock constantly with the supremely powerful f18 radar.
By a lot.
The F18s lack far less than what people whine about. Their FM is still strong in dogfights, and only lacking in recuperation of energy loss while doing so. Them being slow does not usually keep them from sparrowing enemies running from them who do not instantly go to multipath height.
Nobody is doing “bvr” with sparrows to begin with.
A MASSIVE difference. The radar is also SIGNIFICANTLY stronger.
Obvious statement
Of course the issue is compression, and moving the F18 to BR hell is definitely not real decompression. Giving the F18 9M does not make it anywhere near as good as the SU27, 33, F2A, etc. And yes, the difference between a Mirage 2K vs the F18 and the F18 vs MiG 23 is way higher, not sure how can you compare facing top tier ARH is comparable to facing another Sparrow like the ones 11.7 face every other match and is defeated the same way.
It’s not the best air frame even in the BR, it’s a jack of all trades but the Mirage, F14, F16 and more can beat it. Now I don’t consider whether doing that requires skill or not, Gaijin balancing planes based on their winrate rather than loadout, capabilities and performance is what got us here in the first place. And even if it’s good at dog fights, it’s not good at BVR and as I mentioned before, the lack of speed has a direct negative impact on its weaponry, reducing its range and time it takes to reach the target, so it’s not like it does everything good and better than all aircraft eithr in the BR or below it.
And yes, plenty of people do BVR with sparrows, pretty much is the only reason why people climb up high. I do it, I see other people do it, Phantoms do it, but of course neither of the former can match the 27ER in that area.
Yet would make the game far more healthy, so a net positive.
Puts it pretty much on par with the F-15A in that it has worse FM but better missiles with 7P.
1 Like
I don’t think it would with how many people play the F18, and how much worse they would have it at a full uptier compared to 11.7 at a full uptier.
The F15A is probably not on par with the SU27 or SU33 either, but that’s a different discussion and can’t be fixed without decompression.
What is the correlation
It’s one plane. It can never override oppressing 30+ planes.
That it could potentially create another vacuum, this is what happens when you just push compression. You move the F18 away from 12.7, now MiG 23 gets all downtiers, MiG 23MLD facing the Buccaneer S2B is much worse than the F18 vs MiG 23 matchup.
How is the F18 oppressing these planes more than Yak 141 or MiG 29 with the best missiles in the game? If we are going to move all 12.7 up and increas max BR so that we do decompression correctly, I’m all for it. Killing a plane just it’s being spammed? No thanks.
No point in continuing this conversation since it’s obvious we both have different experiences and views as to what balance means, have a great night!
Uptiering problematic vehicles is the opposite of compression.
I think there is a name for it.
Solvable problems. Fix BRs further.
Much higher quantity of missiles, similar lethality in practical terms.
Before I go to sleep, I really can’t ignore you saying the F18 with it’s Sparrows has the same lethality as the M29 with it’s 27ER. Have you been on both sides? Like do you have any actual experience with Sparrows and 27ER? Because I think you are understating just how good the 27ER are. It’s the absolute best missile in the game, hardest to notch, extremly fast, acceleration out of this world, you’re not rolling an ER like you can with Sparrows.
Seriously, a 27ER coming from the top is hard to even multipath, can’t say the same for any Sparrow.
Like if the F18 had to go up, both the M29 and Yak 141 should definitely go up with it.