Airfield AAA Discussion Thread - Air Realistic Battles

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
727

Well, if I win a dogfight in F8, sure as hell it’s not because of turn rate, lol.

Generally, I see a common theme among AF camping players. It’s not them camping. They are “being camped”. As you are probably aware, properly climbing Wyvern at 4.0 is basically untouchable early game and a huge danger to the enemy team.
Yet I’ve met a Wyvern guy camping his AF (maybe even posted a replay here) for several minutes straight and accusing us of “camping him”. Because he was getting chased down after dropping his bombs, so he hid in the safety of his AF.
It was, by his logic, not his fault he was camping, it was me (and my teammates) who were being unfair.
How were we unfair? We got into position that allowed us to kill him. He claimed he was “being camped” from almost the beginning, because at first he was being chased by Yak-3.
What was his “solution”? Just let me bomb.

So to such players a fair situation is a situation where they are untouchable or at least have an advantage (head on vs Wyvern is suicide and generally Wyvern can just clown on Fw 190 in a descending spiral thx to airbrakes and excellent high speed control + high velocity guns, extremely hard to escape such predicament against a player who can kinda aim, kinda because you have 300 RPG so you can keep blasting for like 25s straight).
A situation where they make bad choice and end up in a theoretically deadly situation, because they chose to bomb at low alt, early game, instead of climbing, is unfair to them by default and it means they DESERVE to be protected .

I don’t think people “deserve” to be protected or they “deserve” a way out of every bad situation. This is like a racing game. If you try to race Porsche 911, you don’t deserve to win while driving a 1l, 3-cylinder eco-something something 2t SUV designed to look kinda offroadish, appeal to 30-40yo women and handle like absolute hot garbage. Some difficulties can’t be overcome unless the other driver is blind, drunk, a toddler or all 3 at once. And same applies to WT, yet here people somehow expect to not only have a “fighting chance”, they expect to be able to engage with ability to avoid the damage and choose their encounters.

3 Likes
728

Agreed, as with most of reply.

It simply depends on expectations and individual goals whilst playing a game, expecting “fairness” and “balance” from a game designed to create the opposite in order to earn money with selling stuff like Wyverns, etc is far away from being realistic.

It makes no sense to discuss things if expectations and individual goals are not compatible. So if a guy like in your example wants to bomb / play PvE he had another view on things than you. Rejecting his view is comprehensible, but imho every attempt to change the pov of random strangers in a video game is futile.

We have some common opinions and some deviating povs - but this does not mean that we can’t talk civilized like proven here.

Unfortunately this forum (like society in general) became a “yes” or “no” battle ground regarding opinions - you rarely see a neutral and sober view on things (so a “balanced” view) and almost every debate escalates very quickly into a ugly insult orgy.

If you want to see a perfect example of an such an insult orgy (dealing with basically the same topic) just check out this thread:

Basically a waste of time for all participants as almost nobody was interested in a proper discussion…i mean we talk about a war game and not about a game where unicorns trying have good day, but come to your own conclusions…

729

I mean the thread was about specifically about AF camping which is degenerate from every perspective.

I have disagreements with many of the people who took my side on that thread, because I think that bomber players do have a right to be part of the game mode. I just want the gamemode to be better suited for bomber play, and it just isn’t rn.

Right now, bomber players fly in, drop their payload, and then they can either start climbing to space (waste everyone’s time), return to airfield and just camp it (waste everyone’s time) or try to land and go for a second bombing run which means them at an overwhelming disadvantage.

The incentive structure that Gaijin has set up is terrible. Bomber players only really have the choice to either waste everyone’s time or put themselves in disadvantageous positions.

This creates an unfortunate situation where the only people who actually consistently play bombers are the ones who are okay with wasting everyone’s time. This creates a reaction from non-bombers that make them well… hate them.

Non-bombers begin to hate Bombers for the time wasting, bombers begin to hate non-bombers for calling them out on the strat + getting fed up with them and hunting them down (as I’ve been doing).

As a result, the community begins to divide and hate each other, when in reality the problem is Gaijin’s unwillingness to implement a healthier gamemode.

If we get rid of AF camping, then bomber players will have honest cause to demand better conditions, and the community can present a united front to Gaijin. But if AF camping continues, then Gaijin just pits us against one another.

2 Likes
730

Not sure why this is supposed to matter. The videos perfectly illustrate the various points I made. If posting clips with meta planes is an issue or something, here’s another example of someone wasting time by playing AF NASCAR.

The original point of the replay was in regards to AF which is why I focused on it in the “translation” .

a good flown Yak-3 leaves you very few options outside high speed passes.

True but that’s not the case here since the Yak-3 pilot lost position and decided to AF camp against 1 person. IMO, the current strength of AF AA incentivizes this kind of behavior and does make it really annoying for other players.

To be honest, you can’t even really balance bombers currently. They could be super OP (ending games in a matter of minutes) or currently useless. This reminds me of when the Me 264 was first released and I squaded with 2 other guys. We were consistently ending games unopposed from enemy players because no one could touch us. Tu-4s were also OP years ago with basically aimbot gunners and an insane payload. The whole gamemode would have to change (not just fixing AF AA) to make attackers/bombers actually viable.

3 Likes
731

;)

732

Let me say this, so dev possibly hear this so there is positive feedback

I love the fact that forward AF lost AA

Keep it this way, Good Job, since that change i can’t recall seeing AF camper

Really Good Job, applause for gajin, good job devs, no forward af aa, best change alongside fixed economy.

4 Likes
733

It’s the only reason why I tolerate props.

killing someone who dived for base is a chef’s kiss.

2 Likes
734

that this thread is even alive and still full of airfield campers, actually baffles me

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735

A skill issue on the part of the Wyvern. If he ain’t playing like a fighter he ain’t doing it right.

With the possible exception of the Bombers (mainly British ones) armed with 7.7s, ehhhhh…

1 Like
736

This seems very reasonable. 30 seconds I think is a bit short though, especially when repairing critical damage or rearming, I’ve seen 2-3 minute repair times on the AF before. That’s pretty rare though. But I do think loitering at the AF for 2-3 minutes should eject the player from the game, or count as no active players left on enemy team.

737

If I’ve run out of ammo because I’ve shot down 4 planes already or otherwise expended all your ammo, you absolutely SHOULD have somewhere safe to land to rearm so you can get back to playing PvP.

Waiting till players have to land and then killing them while they’re immobile on the runway isn’t really PvP at all.

And fyi, it’s not just a PvP game, there are attackers and bombers who are all PvE/PvP… Just because you want to be playing PvP, doesn’t mean everyone else is obliged to.

1 Like
738

I don’t understand this obsession/entitlement with having a 3-4 km death bubble around airfields. I got AF strafed just yesterday, because I was out of fuel (long match) and a Mirage F1 launched a S530F at me while I was landing. I didn’t deserve a death bubble around my AF and no one else does either.

That’s exactly what PvP is, player vs. player. It’s your fault if you end up having to land and get AF strafed.

1 Like
739

Imho you mix here some things up.

And i still have zero clue why you think 3-400 matches in Air RB gives you the necessary insight in Air RB, or the ability to assess other plane classes if you still refuse to see the whole picture.

And actually - your problem in your town thread (getting outplayed by a PBJ) and referring to bombers is distracting:

The main problem are camping fighters.

  • If you pretend to strengthen bomber game play - fly one. If you haven’t flown a single bomber sortie, it looks like a blind man is talking about colors…

  • I appreciate your way more modest tone in your reply than in your own thread, but addressing critics vs af aaa in this thread requires no courage, skill or actual knowhow - just follow the rather hostile tone and you get appreciation.

  • I wrote in your own thread that i see no additional value for me to continue dealing with your claims, but as you replied to me i take the chance to give some feedback.

A) Regarding bombers:

  1. There is no problem with af aaa related to bomber game play.

  2. If a bomber manages to drop and rtb, fine. The af aaa protects him when landing, but as soon he has repaired/rearmed and decides to leave the bubble - he is dead.

  3. So it is his own decision to leave the bubble or not. If he managed to play the game by creating a decisive ticket advantage after 14 minutes like in your case, he is not forced to leave his protection - the pressure is always on the guy with the weaker ticket count.

  4. The majority of players requesting buffs for bombers are playing them to grind and not due to sentimental reasons or because they are passionate pilots. They simply refuse to accept the reality that gaijin degraded bomber game play to a cheap and low entry level grinding tool - the changes in May 2020 (respawning bases) killed classic bomber game play.

  5. And the majority of guys asking for bomber nerfs and a removal of af aaa are pure fighter mains - seeing the game how it is - a plain shooter - and are usually leveraging their experience advantage with meta planes.

  6. So it is logical that everything what neutralizes those advantages is bad.
    No real fighter player goes for bombers first as they are usually no threat for the outcome of a match, but if they are going low to farm other fighters they have to accept the risk that a bomber with very good high alt performance and dangerous defensive gunners might be a pain to kill. And then they cry about space climbing bombers…

  7. And the main factors for killing bomber game play were not Tu-4s/B-29s or Me 264s (at BR 3.7 those days) - the insane payload of F-4 phantoms (March 2020) allowed them to end matches even quicker. If you realize that they earn money with top tier jets - they saw their chance to transform Air RB in a zero skill grinding tool - that’s why we had (still have?) these bot script players.

  8. Subsequently they stopped their unsuccessful attempts to balance prop bombers, nerfed them to death and increased their BRs far away from being comprehensible. B-29s at 7.3 is insane. Another reason for bomber nerfs were just braindead rookie fighters getting killed as they saw (and still see) “ass sniffing/tailchasing” of bombers as a very smart tactic.

  9. The more people joined Air RB to grind, the more the average skill level dropped. Basically a circle of PvE players grinding with useless tasks of base bombing accompanied by PvP players farming those PvE players.

AA) Regarding camping fighters:

  1. The “real” annoyance comes from fighters using af aaa to reset the fight. Even if your own thread escalated regarding fighters vs bombers, the main issue of af aaa camping is that it allows infinite resets of fights by highly capable fighters or stuff like Wyverns.

  2. It is actually extremely disappointing if you managed to crit/damage a far superior aircraft just to see them escaping into the protection of af aaa - killing you instantly in most props.

  3. But it is even more disappointing if this superior aircraft can use the “bubble of doom” to reverse the fight by using his superior power to get the upper hand. I mean depending on your own plane you are forced to stay there and to keep an eye on him - so that he is unable to gain altitude/energy advantage. And this is just in a pure 1 vs 1.

  4. If you see the last posts regarding a Yak-3 af aaa camping - this is the usual case. I came out of a match (replay link) seeing a Yak-1B af aaa camping after 6-8 minutes (as last guy alive) - and firing his first shots in the whole match in full committed headon after 19 minutes, imho a new record. In this process 3 of my teammates died to af aaa. And ofc he died in another headon after 23 minutes.

C) Af aaa is altering the outcome - yes and no…

  1. The reality is that i saw a hell of matches completely reversed if your own team is unable or unwilling to keep the “high ground”. Even if you control the fight (like 5 vs 3 with altitude advantage) all of a sudden half of your team decides to ground pound and the other half dies in braindead/unnecessary headons or assumes that af aaa has a day off.

  2. The individual perception of af aaa varies, is dependent on BRs (props vs jets) and has to be seen in a broader context. And everybody might agree that pointless camping (so in a ticket disadvantage without any realistic chance to win) is a waste of time for everybody. A small change in game mechanics could easily avoid this, so if the camper has objectively no realistic chance to win, a 3 minute timer making af aaa useless would make malicious camping useless.

  3. But in cases when your (dead by now) team managed to create a significant ticket lead as they sacrificed their positioning in A2A combat in favour of playing PvE; either driven by tasks (kill x ground units), other goals whilst playing Air RB or in this match (grind/spading a new plane)- there is nothing wrong with using an advantage the game offers.
    It is a team game, and if you manage to stay alive your team wins and get more rewards. The guys farming landing / repairing / rearming enemies on their airfield in jet BRs always claim “if your team fails to provide air cover when you are landing it’s your fault, it’s a team game” have to be consistent.

D) Community

  1. I see no real “community” or even “team play” - almost everybody follow his own agenda - in a match and ofc in this forum. Diverting opinions about certain aspects of game mechanics are usually rooted in other goals whilst playing the game. I explained this here.

  2. For me it is still unclear if we discuss a “1st World problem” or a “real” issue for a hell of players. I asked the OP to add a poll including several questions to get a better picture. No response so far.

  3. The fellow players asking for a removal of af aaa are seeing this from a pure shooter perspective. And this is imho comprehensible as wt is a plain shooter. I encourage them to ask for an additional game mode “fighters vs fighters only” with a skill based MM to eliminate the option to farm rookies / tankers playing PvE in weaker plane classes with fighters. / meta planes - outside these parameters it is just selfish to ask for that.

  4. That’s also why i take nobody seriously if he flies primarily meta planes, the average experience advantage vs the average opponent is way too large if you have >15-25 days fighter experience; it is good for racking up kills, but rather bad for having a challenge.
    We have some fighter pilots in Air RB (just look at the stats of the 109 G-6 in this replay) with amazing statistics like 30:1 k/d in the USSR 190 D-9, but if you looks close enough stat padders play more than often in squads, that’s the main reason why they have WRs in the high 80ties / low 90ties.

  5. This thread is equally effective as the famous CAS / TO (“Tank Only mode”) / ODL (One Death Leavers) discussions of the fellow tank players. A few guys rant about wasting time, skill issues, etc. They simply refuse to accept realities.

  6. In this debate (and the whole forum) just a few guys admit that they play wt just for the sake of kills. This is absolutely fine because wt is a shooter, and shooters are measured by K/D and nothing else.
    But the overwhelming majority of posters is hiding behind the usual stuff to get rid off prop af aaa:

  • “But, but it’s a PvP game…”
  • “Without af aaa the game play would be better”
  • “I want to improve the game”
  • “Take more fuel”
  • “Don’t waste you ammo”
  • “Don’t fly PvE planes in a PvP mode”
  • “It’s a team game, etc…”

So at the end most of them are just plain hypocrites pretending to have other goals than to allow them easier kills - that’s all.

  1. Again, wt is a plain shooter, there is nothing wrong to think like that, but pretending to be “White Knights” being on a crusade for a better game play is extremely annoying…

  2. As long as the majority does not see that af aaa is just a game mechanic like everything else, rants against af aaa are pointless. Almost every pilot driven by the shooter character of wt flies fighters, in a mode dominated by PvE players (=rather easy kills) and uses other game mechanics like fighters with air spawn, playing as a squad, usage of mouse aim in air rb and fying meta planes - those are all direct or indirect game mechanics.

  3. The main difference of a power-up in a shooter and af aaa in wt is its defensive character and only a few guys are able to utilize it. A few guys know it (just look at post #290, #300 & #306) but the overwhelming majority is actually incapable of using it. Hence, we have so many example of useless camping (post #671, #675, etc.).

  4. There are whole squads which are using af aaa as integral part of their game play, almost everybody here met them over the years. A few solo players even brag with their K/Ds on yt (post #282) and this is the main issue: Players use af aaa without any chance to win, extend game time and farm impatient players.

  5. As long as af aaa in prop BRs is like it is, everybody can argue af aaa is bad or good - imho the removal of af aaa on forward afs was a great relief - but without af aaa you are forced to play a meta fighter or you are screwed. So as long as we have af aaa “bloodthirsty” fighter mains can continue slaughtering rookies in Air RB in weaker plane classes.

Finally:

An example from me using af aaa - i saw that my 2 remaining enemies were not smart enough to understand game mechanics. If one would have gone low to stopped their ticket drain i would have killed the other one and the lower guy later. And if i had no af aaa as a tactical tool, i would have been able to outrun and outturn both in my Italian 109 F-4 - because i have to use a pure fighter without af aaa; their speed advantage is too low to put pressure on a 109.

An example of fully intended use of af aaa as a tactical tool:

  • In this match i flew with my SM 92 in a full uptier. After a few minutes i saw 4 190s close together at around 5 km alt; i assumed a squad (confirmed later by replay) and tried to look like easy prey with the hope that one of them would see me as an ez prey and follow me - and it worked.

  • I flew to my airfield at around 5 km and separated him from his squad (=10 km+), forced him to dive on me and was immediately at his six after one dodge. In the replay you see how difficult it is to get guns on target is you fly with joystick. Easy kill, reclimb.

  • I was 1 vs 2 after 12 minutes but had thanks to a T 18-B pilot something ~ 2.200 points ticket lead and altitude advantage. So flying 1 vs 2 with alt advantage is ok as long as they are not coordinated. Their only chance to win for them was that one kills my ai planes and some ground units to stop their ticket bleed and another one keeps me busy.

  • I assumed that they would try to kill me as a team and if i would attack the higher guy he would drain my energy advantage by running to his squad mate. I flew to them to see what they are doing - both came for me, despite i counted 4 or 5 own ai planes which would increase my advantage.

  • After 15 minutes i had a 3.100 points ticket lead (thanks to ai planes), at 15:40 with ~ 4.200 vs ~ 1.000 enemy tickets i had won the game. So if one of them would have gone low to kill ground and my ai planes in time, i had killed the other one as i had the advantage and a 190 D-12 / D-13 has zero chance in a 1 vs 1 if i do not make mistakes.

  • They lost the match because they assumed i would feel the necessity to fight on their terms. Why would i fight 1 vs 2? They decided to go for me whilst i was clearly extending towards my airfield - so they proved that they were not able to make the right decisions.

  • Without af aaa i would have spawned as a pure fighter. In a Bf 109 F-4 at the same 4.0 BR i would have outclimbed them, so i had used my strengths like they used theirs (fighting as squad) early game.

  • But as i do not fly meta planes and i am not kill driven, i prefer my SM 92. So i dove at 15:40 into af aaa cover and stayed there (~ 5 min) until the ticket win.

And exactly such cases are described as af camping - inexperienced players are unable to “read” a match and blame af aaa as “game play killer” despite their own mistakes we leading to their defeat. It is not impossible to kill a ticket disadvantage of 2-3.000 tickets with 2 fighters - in 10-13 minutes, there were enough soft targets and ai planes to kill.

2 Likes
740

Most planes can easily kill 4 people with ammo to spare. If you “otherwise expended all your ammo”, that’s your problem not mine. If you’ve flown out a plane that has doesn’t have enough ammo for lots of kills, that’s your problem not mine.

Your gameplay decisions are your concern and the consequences of them should not be offloaded onto the other team in the form of a 3-4km deathzone around your airfield to let you repair and re-arm with impunity. Especially so when that deathzone is so easily exploitable for less innocent purposes than “get[ting] back to playing PvP”. The vast, vast majority of people using airfield AA to cover for them haven’t just shot down four planes, they’re just scared of the guy 1km below them on a much lower energy state getting a singular shot off on them.

You are not entitled to a free pass to re-arm just because the other team, as a whole, was able to gain an upper hand and deny you the breathing room to safely land. Doesn’t matter how many you killed, if your team is incapable of fending people off of one single airfield, your team rightly does not deserve the opportunity to safely RTB. It’s a risk, a gamble.

It’s a team game. Your solo actions, while impressive, should not entitle you to freebies like airfield AA covering you while you re-arm and re-climb. There are 16 players on the enemy team, not one. Individual merit counts in how you contribute to the whole, that should be it.

3 Likes
741

What angers me is when a dude with one assist gets to reclimb to my altitude for free after he got damaged early-game.

I just spent all match being useful to my team, conserving my ammo and probably getting 2-3 kills… and then a bozo who was chasing bombers gets to be above me and have a safety zone despite playing worse on every level. Victory belongs to the guy who can come and take it.

2 Likes
742

You should run for office, you’re good at taking forever to reach a conclusion.

“Just groundpound bro.”

If I wanted easier kills, I would fly in lowtier where no one knows what they are doing. If I wanted easier kills, I would be encouraging people to fly useless planes. If I wanted easier kills, I wouldn’t be teaching my friends and the community how to fly better. The top fragger in war thunder just flies out the MiG-3 - but I don’t do this, because I like a challenge.

Asking for removal / nerf of airfield AA is because it makes the gameplay less fun and draws out the outcome of the game, giving an unfair advantage to the player who can use his airfield to disengage at will, for free, often flying the better plane.

Gaming is already an unproductive use of time. The productive thing that it offers is fun. Camping your own base and playing extremely passive is not fun, and neither is dealing with such useless enemies. I have more fun fighting skilled enemies and losing than dealing with a passive patrick for fifteen minutes and winning. If I can die, I can be in another game in five minutes. Airfield campers have wasted hours of my life that I will never get back.

I consider airfield camping to be wrong and most skilled players do too, which is why in the skilled player community the AF campers never want to reveal that they camped base for their stats.

Later in this post you proceeded to say quote “there is nothing wrong with using an advantage the game offers.” Do you consider airfield AA a problem, or not?

Wishy-washy essay length posts don’t change the fact that airfield AA promotes boring gameplay that allows fighter pilots to make dumb mistakes and then get away with it without increasing their skill level. It is frustrating to fight for casuals and fighter mains alike, and when taken to the extreme it results in meta-plane 4-man base camping squads that RTB whenever they feel they are in the slightest danger of ruining their KD.

The removal of secondary base AA was great but it should be followed by a nerf to primary base AA and a way for bombers to rearm without landing, such as in-air rearm points or a replacement bomber if they fly to the edge of the map.

2 Likes
744

I already feel super engaged just thinking about it.

It was better when all guns could clear ground targets (tanks and all). You could just FORCE these people to come out of the AF bubble and force their hand that they have to engage you or lose.

It’s very damn sad that when you have to deal with a camper I need to put myself in a shit position, and KEEP that position long enough so he sticks the fight and doesn’t just turn around to AF again after 1 pass.

NEVERMIND about someone who actually knows how to fly and using the AF to reverse any advantage you may have gotten. Even if rare, those people do exist and its just disgusting gameplay.

AF AA should just be removed entirely, or just severely reduced in effectiveness… I’m kind of OK with AF AA in jets as when you know a little what you are doing you can evade the missiles while still being at risk… in props? Man it’s just dumb. Even throwing 5 people at the AF AA to kill 1 enemy, all 5 will die nearly all the time without even getting within 1 km of the airstrip.

Gameplay got infinitely better now that forward AF AA is gone, but don’t stop there.

3 Likes
745

Removing AAA at the main, rear, airport is nonsense.
On the front airfield, AAA removal, that’s good, the player has to think a little bit about where and under what circumstances he will land.

-If I am damaged, I want to return to the protected airfield and repair it.
-If I need to rearm, I need a protected airfield.
-Air rearmament points were already in the game and it turned out ingloriously, it would have been more appropriate to have air rearmament zones, several kilometers long, on home soil at a predetermined height … for example, a low fly-by over the ground in a certain area…

Players camping in or near the airport never bothered me, we immediately moved on to destroying any ground or air AI targets…

An unprotected airport basically means that the airport is useless and therefore it is ideal to use only aerial launches and in case of any damage it is ideal to jump out of the plane.
So a total, stupid destroy-or-be-destroyed furball and move on to the next game…

I’ve been playing long enough to know that a flight game isn’t just a dull, first-person shooter with no idea, but you can use tactical thinking when you want to… and that’s what aviation is all about…

And by the way … I enjoy opinions on team play here in the game…
This game does not support team play at all, everyone plays only for themselves and during the battle everyone can decide if it is currently more advantageous to join forces with several other players or to play solo.

And I noticed that a lot of players use the so-called aerial camping…
They rise sideways and high, that’s all right
but they don’t get involved in the game at all - it’s not just a direct aerial battle, but they don’t even try to help with earning points, to win tickets…
They wait to see how the game develops and then either try to arrive damaged player planes or Ai planes…
In case of emergency, they land at the airport and exit the game, or land anywhere else and exit the game too…
It’s strange, but it’s also a possible tactic … the game allows it …
Apparently, for players who play for free and have their machines repaired for several days, it’s worth it…

This game is multi-variable, it has a lot of options for how anyone wants to play it … and that was one of the basic requirements of the devs from the beginning …

It has already been addressed that the game is made too fun and elements of realism are suppressed, but there are a lot of players with different approaches to the game …

Someone would like to get as close to reality as possible, someone wants to have fun playing the game, someone is an obsessive grinder who ticks off completed goals - module research, fully researched aircraft, completed daily tasks, etc…

3 Likes
746

Impossible - too many skeletons in the closet…

No, exactly not. Either you missed me by accident or on purpose - or i was not clear enough.

  • The main point of my example was to show a calculated decision on my part.

  • I had alt advantage vs both opponents after 12 minutes - but both enemies have way superior speed and climb. So if i would have attacked the higher one in one or two passes, i would have lost my energy advantage very soon. The main disadvantage of flying with joystick is the lack of accuracy vs mouse aim - so in order to hit something i have to make them slow = enforce an energy/stall fight.

  • Energy fighting vs two coordinated 190 Ds in a SM 92 works only if they are absolutely clueless - but both enemies knew what their planes are capable of.

  • If one would have gone low i would have killed the higher one and the lower guy later - if both would have went low and covered each other it would might have been interesting.

  • But they made the wrong decision in climbing after me despite i flew away from them - assuming that they can equalize my advantage quite soon - it took 3 minutes.

What is it?

Fun is relative - transferring your understanding of fun to others is not really an argument.

Where is the challenge?

If you have fun clubbing rookies in a meta plane with 85 days fighter experience - be my guest. But: I see a challenge in fighting with a non-meta plane vs better performing aircraft to level the playing field.

What skill? Clubbing rookies and farming weaker plane classes? You fly fighters to increase your kill numbers (=stats) and prefer not dying (=stats). If you try to measure skill - look for players performing well in a S-199. Everything else is is just not worth to talk about.

To a certain degree: Yes.

The very weak af aaa around 4 years ago enforced players to improve or die, so a weak af aaa is from a holistic pov a benefit for the game play.

But:

  1. WT is not the same game like 4 years ago - and Air RB is a mess compared to 2019.
  2. The chances to meet skilled opponents in a match is around 5-20%. So clubbing such rookie players like in the video above (post #646) was the exception.
  3. Following the idea that a removal of af aaa would stop the sheer masses of untrained pilots flooding Air RB to grind (without enjoying the mode) is an illusion.
  4. The game mode became Air AB+ and nothing will change the demands of the “new” player generation (“instant action” and “grind”) and pandora’s box is open, if you like it or not.
  5. Any attempts to turn back the clock are futile - just look at the poll for the base respawn timer - there is no way that gaijin would discourage those players with making Air RB less attractive for grinders.

First of all - my post was addressed to a newer player without having the insight in a lot of things - so it got longer than expected.

Second - you are not forced to read them or reply to them.

Agreed, met 6th Army and Co. a few times.

The original post was misleading:

  1. The game ends in props with fulfilling win conditions. Even without ai plane interference i had 2.200 points ticket lead.
  2. So you might argue that my 2 opponents have lost the match due to wrong decision making - or i won as i survived. I mean - circling above my af at 6-7 km alt and doing nothing and losing by tickets - or waiting 5 minutes low for win is a large difference.
  3. Fun is a personal thing. Some people might have fun clubbing rookies.

Seriously? Killing an ai Tiger or Sherman with a singe HE shell with less TNT than a hand grenade? It took gaijin ages to realize that they messed this up.

You refuse to accept that prop Air RB is not a TDM mode - even if most matches are decided this way. In addition - ticket leads don’t fall from the sky - some player actions caused them.

Although i share your concerns and see this similar critical - no pure TDM mode.

As written in posts #512 & 658, i fully agree to the first part, the second part might be something for the future, but only if gaijin would deliberately decide to accept the shit storm of the pure grinder community.

By the way - you might want to avoid to fly low near enemy mini bases - on some maps gaijin buffed the aaa defending those bases - they snipe even Wyverns - i collected some affected maps here: Link. They are so deadly that you should even avoid attacking enemies near your own mini bases, i got killed on Laizihou by own midmap aaa whilst performing a BnZ attack on a Pe-2…

Exactly!

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747

Playing a non-meta vehicle does not excuse going back to the base. If it’s about skill and the challenge, then you can win in non-meta planes if the enemy makes mistakes and you play it well enough. If not, then you get to go to the next one. Dying more is the consequence of playing a plane that’s not meant to be a fighter.

If I wanted better KD, I could be 4-man squadding or running to base all the time. If I wanted better KD, I could be playing exclusively the meta top-to-bottom way. If I wanted to be top on the KB leaderboards, I would be playing low-tier sealclubbers like the MiG-3.

When you have as much experience as I do, you cannot fly decent props without looking like you are sealclubbing. I want to play WWII vehicles and I use my stats as a measure of self-improvement. If you want to see where I play non-meta vehicles in air RB look at my stat card and search for Me 410.

Air RB has not fundamentally changed in 4 years. We all spawn in with a few planes getting airspawn and the fighters starting on the ground. There’s a max of 4 bombers per team, and the match outcome is usually decided by who wins in PvP.

Gaijin has changed a lot of window dressing but the basics stayed the same. So, airfield AA is the same problem that it was 4 years ago. We will always have rookies, that is fine. But giving them an easy way to save their planes without increasing skill level is a problem. Those rookies are going to stay rookies and they’ll keep getting clubbed if they can’t get back to base AA in time.

Repair costs should still be high, but rewards should be high as well. Also, win bonus needs to be increased again. When you are penalized for losing and rewarded heavily for winning, of course you want to win more.

Currently there is no good reason why a newer player shouldn’t just pick a plane with lots of guns and go full commit in the furball every match.

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