when wyern is returning to base you should be climbing not following him
i play wyern i know how to defeat me easy if you in the right plane and know what you doing
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“if you’re in a right plane” lol, and what if I’m in a normal plane that won’t catch Wyvern at any alt? I can climb all I want. If Wyvern climbs over base and baits, I’m not catching it. Also I’ve heard I’m supposed to “ground pound”.
Wyvern doing his little AF camping routine is untouchable. I can’t really see him all the time and I can’t tell if he’ll ever leave the AAA bubble or not.
Wyvern shouldn’t be at 4.0 and AF AAA shouldn’t exist in game.
Usually when Wyvern gets spotted, he’s cruising at hogh speed several km away. I dive, he bombs the base and starts diving back to his base. I’ll maybe catch him - too bad there’s AF AAA he reaches before I get him. That’s the reality
AF AAA needs to be lethal at all times, and Wyvern is fine at 4.0 so long as it’s fragile as a vase.
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ARB, probably best to keep it simple and keep AAA fairly deadly. Though whether it needs some kind of timer or something to prevent hte last alive from AF camping is another conversation altogether.
though I would like to see them overhaul AAA AI. Sometimes the AAA can a sniper, others its firing randomly. Really noticable in ASB. A ground up rework of how AI controlled AAA in all gamemodes, and not just AFs, but mid map AAA as well, I think would be really good. It should be a threat, but only if you are playing stupidly. Currently, its deadly no matter what you do.
There is a timer. However, people don’t land because AAA won’t protect them, so they have to WAIT for skies to be clear around their airfield to land safely.
Increasing lethality ends all airfield camping.
I dont play ARB much, but I have encountered more than 1 medium bomber or something that lands, takes off and then just circles AF. Usually I’ll just dive bomb them and ram them so they cant steal the win. But does happen sometimes.
“just dont play bombers”
what kind of advice is this? how about you cease to play fighters just because of some stupid reason?
when i was new to this game i knew i’d want to play bombers, he 111 was my favourite, sadly, that dream was ruined. Fix stupid air rb mode instead of removing AAA.
yeah, we might learn we lose SL amount equal to our repair cost when we are low and slow, just after rearming and there are 3 enemies at 4k altitude
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You failed your 1st lesson - understanding the point.
Without AF AAA you won’t be using it to fix your problems and you won’t be so eager to spam all your ammo, attack bombers early game, which is very risky for your long-term.flyability etc.
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Sounds like you just want to remove AFs full stop
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è inutile non capirà mai che togliendo le AA il gioco peggiorerebbe soltanto. piuttosto dimmi cosa ne pensi della proposta che ho avanzato con il grafico.
removing the AAs is not the solution. gaijin needs to find a way to control and prevent players from camping with an intelligent method like I tried to think of in the graph I put above. at least i tried to find a logical solution, without sounding like a broken record crying that i want to remove the AA
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You’re agreeing with me that AAs shouldn’t be removed.
People camp airfields because SPAA doesn’t kill.
You can’t land safely if people are camping you, so you’re forced to camp while waiting for the enemy campers to crash, get killed, or leave.
It could work.
How I see it there are 2 conflicting problems
-
People camping AFs, either at the end of the match when last alive to win on tickets or running back to sanctury to avoid being killed during a dogfight,
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AFs being unsafe to land and re-arm/repair before heading back out into the fight
AFs need to be strong enough to fend off an attack, but not so deadly that you cannot approach at all.
I think the simpler solution is to massively increase the range of the SPAA bubble (10km ish?), by spreading the AA over a wider area. this would also reduce the density of the fire. I’d overall massively decrease the accuracy of the AA, but have it increasing the longer you are within the proximity. There for 10 seconds, unlikely to be hit. There for 1 minute+, then you should be dead already.
We could also have AA “run out” of ammo, the longer the match goes on for, the less guns that fire and the less dangerous AA around the AF becomes. Within the first 5 minutes of the match its at full stength. 10 minutes 75% stength, 15 minutes 50% strength, etc. To help deal with end of match campers
Having an “inner” area (1km), which AA was extra dangerous, to protect anyone who is genuinely landing and repairing could definetly work.
But I also want all AA, not just AF AA to be a lot “smarter” currently it will fire at you no matter what, reality is, during a dive or at extreme low level, AA should have reduced effectiveness/reaction time, so with the right tactics, AF AA should be penetrable to attack a target within the zone, but for it to nontheless be dangerous to attempt such a thing.
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it would make sense that in fact the AA gets stronger as you go up in BR, but I’m so afraid that many pro players play at low levels precisely to avoid the problem. here in Italy we say - trusting is good, not trusting is better - and if I were gaijin I would make sure that there are no gray areas that can be exploited, and give clear and marked rules, so I am more in favor of increasing the AA around the airport and make it more difficult (not impossible) to approach, but have that right protection but to be careful. the problem that remains is that of the people who wait at high altitude for the players who take off, low and slow, perhaps inviting the AA to shoot so as to attract fire while another player runs to kill the player on the runway or who is in the process of take off
Yeah, more advanced and capable SAM at higher tier would be good. in ASB i see Mig-29s and F-16s dogfighting over the AF with no care in the world because they are moving so fast and quickly, that the missiles and SPAA never hit. I can even fly close by an AF in SB to hit a base in a Torando Gr1 and rarely have to worry about it. and im just flying straight and level but at 50ft
Fine tuning these elements for each rank will be key, but the main difference should be the type of AAA used at each rank (MGs at rank 1, Radar guided SPAA/SAMs at rank 9)
No system will be perfect though. Best we can hope for is a general middle ground. There will always be good players that can mitigate the dangers, and bad players that get instantly destroyed by it.
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OK, so let me rephrase this - you want me to be completely safe from.everyone as long as my plane is fast enough/I’m smart enough to just dive towards AF at the very sign of trouble?
And if I get damaged and land, I should be untouchable till I reclimb, even though it was the enemy who did a good job?
My team fails and runs to base, they don’t even protect each other dueing landing and all of the sudden it’s the enemy team’s problem?
Why?
AF AAA is currently being exploited by the worst, most unskilled players, but also by trolls and malicious stat padders. Good players get almost never any benefit from it, and when they do - most will refuse it anyway.
F.e. I can climb to 3000m under AF AAA but I’ll usually climb towards enemy. Why? Because they are above me for a good reason. And that reason is my team’s failure.
I can bait multiple enemies and score easy kills. What will I learn? Nothing.
Edit: there are some maps where AF AAA does nothing. I manage to strafe someone on a runway in maybe one per 12 games on such maps and it’s usually only because the enemy is running towards AF with me on his tail expecting AF AAA to fix his problems. In other words - people dying over or at the airfield are almost always:
- AF campers
- AF runners (expecting AF to solve their problem)
- bombers/attackers that would have died seconds after exiting the AF deathzone anyway and even then - I am usually baited towards them by AF campers/runners who are expecting AAA help.
So withour AAA I wouldn’t even be close to that airfield because the enemy would actually engage me.
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Any and all changes to AFs, whether you make them totally OP or remove them entirely, is never going to fix you and your teammates from being bad. That is an entirely different problem. The AA exists because you cannot rely on teammates to even still be alive, not too mention actively defending the AF to allow for players to land safely, why do you think they basically removed bomber obj from top tier. No one would bother actually defending obj, they just want the kills
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Heck, i’ve baited a fair share of enemy fighters over a convoy in SB before and killed them using the AA from that.
I was in something that couldnt fight back, bingo on fuel. I’d have no chance of survival if I tried to fight. So instead in those cases, I used my speed and tactical awarness, to bait them over the convoy. down they went, and i landed to launch another sortie.
Was the enemy fighter chasing me bad for not paying attention to their location?
Was I bad for not trying to fight an unwinable battle and instead ran?
Or was I smart in using that tactic?
I don’t know what the correct answer is, but AF AA is needed, that much is certain. The number of good players that can attack an AF safely when its dangerous are far more smaller than the number that would attack it if it was easy
2 Likes
i find your solution a bit unperfect, see, the “red line” would become a new norm and people camping for landing aircraft will complain about AAA’s suddenly shooting at them at longer range when they in reality just barely crossed the red line
what about this?
https://forum.warthunder.com/t/airfield-aaa-discussion-thread-air-realistic-battles/718/184