It’s a game. Basically NOTHING in Air RB resembles real life combat operations. So why introduce this one realistic feature instead of f.e. meeting the enemy once every few flights?
What counts is the gameplay. You want to land safely? Make sure your teammates are doing their job. AF AAA that is very effective is AF AAA that can and will be exploited by bad/troll/malicious players to kill and frustrate the enemy.
Exactly. It is still unclear for me if we are discussing here a 1st World problem of a few or a severe weakness of the game affecting all players.
The elephant in the room is:.
- How many people demand changes (removal/improvements) with what kind of proposals/suggestions in which segment (props or jets) and are they statistically relevant (confidence level) or not and…
- Gaijins’ opinion about that. Even with reading the forum for 5 years is can’t remember any official response or feedback. The only recent feedback is indirect, after several incidents of non-working af aaa in 2 or 3 updates they “fixed” af aaa quite fast and the last 2 updates showed no similar incidents…
So if some guys are capable to add a complex poll like this:
A) Do you have issues with Airfield AntiAircraftArtillery (af aaa) in Air RB?:
a) yes
b) no
If no - the direct to point E)
If yes - detailed feedback required.
B) Where are your issues located:
a) Prop BRs
b) Jet BRs
c) in both BR ranges
C) What are your issues with prop BR af aaa (multiple answers)?
a) af aaa is too strong
b) af aaa is too weak
c) af aaa is not consistent on all maps
d) prop BR af aaa is fine, i have just issues with jet BR af aaa
D) What are your issues with af aaa in jet BRs (multiple answer) ?
a) af aaa is too strong
b) af aaa is too weak
c) af aaa is not consistent on all maps
d) jet BR af aaa is fine, i have just issues with prop BR af aaa
E) Game play: af aaa is
a) helpful and supports my game play
c) not helpful and not supporting my gameplay
c) not affecting my game play
F) Necessity of af aaa:
a) Essential
b) Has to be removed
c) I don’t care
G) Your play in Air RB
a) mostly fighter aircraft
b) mostly strike aircraft
c) mostly bomber aircraft
H) I fly in Air RB mainly
a) in order to grind the Tech Tree (TT)
b) in order to earn SLs
c) in order to have fun as i like being a pilot
I) I see and use Air RB mainly as
a) a Team Death Match mode
b) a PvP mode (player vs player)
c) a PvE mode (plaver vs environment)
d) a combined PvP/PvE mode
So - this poll would give this whole tread a structure, is neutral regarding the wording and would help to clarify what we are talking about. A problem of a few or for a significant number of players.
I would be happy to see some reliable data regarding how many people are how affected by the current situation in which BR range (props vs jets) and what they would prefer.
I mean exactly because it is just a game any request regarding changes (no matter of buff or nerf) would alter the game play, so if somebody is able to create such a poll it would be helpful for all.
I tried to create this poll, but i gave up; i found no online help or a guide.
You do realise players are usually clueless. Because “playing the game” and “understanding why the game is fun” and “knowing how the gameplay works” are often very different things.
I understood WT to reasonable extent around 2020, several months after my return to the game I had played for several years already.
I understood how the match develops, what decisions people make, how to navigate the environment and this allowed me to achieve top 10 kills per battle when I felt lke spamming Fw 190 F8, Ki-44-II and G.55 S0 (yes, I’m bragging to show I understand the gameplay to some extent and can turn this understanding into results - and I still can’t properly duel!).
Players THINK they benefit from AF AAA because:
It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. People need AF AAA because they have learnt to rely on AF AAA. But judging by how matches develop, AF AAA exploiters are 5-10% of playerbase. Most players are just indifferent because they are food for better players and rarely survive untip late game. Then you have 5-10% players complaining about AF AAA because:
Now, there is a simple choice - to listen to toxic, malicious, troll players who care only about their own stats and ability to ruin the game for everyone else. Or to listen to people who actually…
…enjoy playing Air RB and want the mode to be fun.
Now, majority has no idea and no opinion, because they are affected by AF AAA rather rarely and to them the game is all great chaos, beyond their understanding. So they have no idea what consequences AF AAA abuse even has.
You do realise I would be able to abuse AF AAA to ridiculous extent if I wanted, ruining match after match for enemy team? I do not do this only because of principles I follow. You know, what would happen if every decent player followed such gameplay?
It would become a goddamn nightmare.
I often see players who engage even though they would be able to run to AF or camp whole round. I always talk to them in the chat and praise their fighting spirit. And guess what - that fighting spirit (which sometimes kills me!) Is what decides a good portion of matches I play. People choose to dogfight instead of running the clock.
And guess what - it’s only their good will that makes the game playable.
Playability should NOT be based upon good will. Because if players start getting annoyed, the game will become unplayable and the domino effect will remove large part of the playerbase, me included. And for what? To satisfy some horrible players?
Me too. I have zero clue how they gain 120 million € revenues with a product like wt. The whole game is a mess - at least regarding game piay/MM/BRs/etc. - every more experienced player knows this…and found niches or workarounds for most of intended or unintended flaws or weaknesses. And keeps playing, me too…
Although i agree to most of your points - nobody in this whole thread is representing anybody besides himself. This whole topic is for sure an issue for the participants, but without any structure all discussions or exchanges are just an infinite loop (" Groundhog Day") - and gaijin has not reacted on 2.035 posts about af aaa in the old forum. So why should they consider any changes without knowing about how many people are how affected?
The only way to tell how people are affected would be to i troduce some.changes (and not in a form of a bug), explain them to the olayerbase and wait for a month to see how things develop.
But in such cases Gaijin quickly reacts to troll-players feedback, because all of the sudden their opinions are valuable, and they are only vocal because abusing AF AAA is the only way they ever get any results or fun from the game, at the expense of everyone else. And trust me - it’s laughably easy to ruin the game if you are smart and have a fast plane.
do you even imagine how broken it would be if airfield wouldnt have AA? not only would it be incredibly frustrating to die to players while trying to rearm/repair/refuel but it would also be disgusting to be able to essentially kill entire enemy team by AF camping
airfield AA is already weak, espeically at jet tiers, i seen guys passing it again and again without getting hit, even in prop 4.0 battles.
removing AA is not the solution, neither is nerfing it.
so here is my solution:
the only reliable way to destroy the jets, was to attack them on the ground or during takeoff or landing.
The Luftwaffe countered by installing extensive Flak alleys of anti-aircraft guns along the approach lines to protect the Me 262s from the ground
You are wrong and you are wrong.
The only instances when “entire enemy team” is on the AF is if they get absolutely DESTROYED mid map and all run to AF.
There were several periods where AF AAA was non-functional and guess what - no one was strafing “entire teams”. I have once strafed 3 guys, you know how this happened?
Their teammate decided to run to AF instead of dogfighting me.
So I followed and since I was already going low and fast, I just took the opportunity.
It happened EXACTLY ONCE.
And it was caused by a guy who wanted to use AF AAA to reset the fight.|
His behaviour was indeed disgusting.
So, strafing “entire teams” is not a real problem and it never happened.
And if you need to “refuel/rearm” with enemy close to you - guess what, you’ve lost. Get gud and win next time.
peharps, but during those “periods” people werent very well aware… or at least i wasnt, and thus havent considered such tactics.
i seen people camping airfield and get killed by AA fire which they deserved, and if airfield AA gets removed i swear i will bully landed players so much until they go on forums and reverse the change .
ah yes, so people who landed should automatically get killed because they had incompetent teammate?
Loofah explained it very well earlier with how he lays out which players want to improve and which ones don’t. You can’t beat that post. And unfortunately, it’s not going to matter.
So what I’m going to ask you is to take the time to understand the game and get better at it.
You died. So what? It’s a game. No one cares about your stats, there are no real life consequences to dying a couple of times as you figure out what you are doing. You will never have fun games if you don’t take any risk; the best moments of the match come when you gamble it all and succeed, because there is the very real risk of failure. And if you fail, it’s on to the next one.
And once you realize where the fun comes from, you will come to understand why airfield AA is so very frustrating.
All the time you call people in favor of AF AAA low IQ players, yet here you are flying into an area were enemy fighters are not supposed to go. Sure sometimes an airfield is bombed but normally by non-fighters, maybe after a SEAD mission fighters come in for straffling. But under normal circumstances sane fighter bois do not get near eny airbases. They are too well protected both in real life as in War Thunder.
How can we feel sorry for you dying when you admit flying into the area you have no role to play? Gaijin does not tell you to get near the AF, we did not tell you to go their, and though we do not agree at all, you sound way smarter then flying into the AF AA. Go and hunt some ground units or if your team are well on their way with the other objectives patrol the access to the battlefield to secure the victory.
Remember, it is called War Thunder, not Dogfight Simulator for a reason, get the objectives done by protecting your bombers and attackers and they will win you the match.
Even in '44 the Germans were not fully locked on their airfields, no Airforce is strong enough to patrol an enemy airbase, even if they managed to suppress all AA. It makes much more sense to defend your attackers and bombers, fly CAS, or go on general air patrols to find enemy bombers, attackers or fighters. Sure it is a game, but for the game about a battle, but for the battle no enemy needs to be near your AF.
Yep. I remember a few months back when AF AA was broken and teams weren’t getting slaughtered at their airfield. It was always a few guys that would run to AF whenever they got chased and faced the hard reality that AF AA isn’t going to be their crutch for the 1031385th time in a match. It was also hilarious (still happens now to be fair) when AF campers would run back to base while their teammates were repairing and they would just let their teammates get killed. Some guy in a match recently did that and got his teammate F-104 killed because he’s so used to just running back to AF AA.
A better option instead of removing, nerfing, or buffing AAA is to allow players to switch or choose planes in Air RB rather than be stuck with one aircraft. This gives players options that if there were enemies camping the airfield they can go back and land and switch to a strike aircraft or bomber and try to win on tickets instead. This should be complimented by having more objective based tasks such as destroying entire convoys for a substantial loss of enemy tickets instead of just having each individual AI kill reduce a small amount of tickets. I still believe in strong Airfield AA is needed, but that shouldn’t stop anyone from finding other ways to end the game.
Back in the days AF AA did nothing, there wasn’t much if any strafing going on by some special person who flew around the map with the sole purpose to strafe people on the runway. Yes it did happen, sure, but not by any large amount. What did happen though is when your team basically died and lost map control and most were on the runway repairing/reloading, you will get slaughtered. But imo this is deserved, you lost.
In its current state people can just get hit, crit, and dive to the runway… if you aren’t in a faster plane, they get a free +1 life they do not deserve. Or, they use the AF AA to reverse the situation of them being chased to being the chaser. Great fun bro! Really deserved that “reversal” and guess what, if you reverse them again they just do the exact same thing again, joy.
From the moment AF AA got buffed to its current state it has been detrimental to the gameplay, and especially any form of team play, to cover each other when in a vulnerable position (landed). Now you can just enter your bubble of death and be 99.5% safe from anything.
Modern airfield attacks almost always start with SEAD, which we do not do in WT because the AA is clustered too much and we do not have anti-radiation missiles.
If a team takes out AF AA I have no problem with airfield camping and strafing. But if that would happen every game the AA would just be too weak.
That M163 is a part of convoy slightly to the enemy side of the map. Do you even play the mode?
Do you ever leave your side of the map?
So you’re claiming I can’t even cross the map middle? Well, that’s how airfield csmpers play - always stay close enough to be able to use AF AAA to bait their enemies. Very fair.
And if you think I’m not supposed to go anywhere near AF - OK, I’m not going there anyway because of insta-death zone. Then I’m getting “reversed” and I have to defend vs a guy I was chasing down, who can do that again and again.
And remember - in Fw 190 F8 vs Spitfire Mk IX LF, I have no advantages. If I’m on his tail, that’s my only real chance - I land my shots, or I die.
Then the guy uses AF and I have to run. He’s now behind me and quickly gaining or climbing. Now I can’t touch him and can’t do anything about his advantage. If I try to turn around again, he can easily dodge or as dot mentioned - just do the same trick again.
WHat gameplay purpose does giving bad players such crutch plays?
How does it IMPROVE on anything?
It promotes trolling, malicious gameplay and 0 skill, because to “reverse” via AF you just need to point your nose towards AF.
I have tried AF camping once, in Fw 190 D9. 4 Spitfires died while trying to get me and we won a game we were badly losing 2 vs 5.
How is that fair?
What skill allowed me to win?
Seriously.
they could have just stayed out. are you some sort of magnet or what?
i see what problems you are talking about but there are just solutions so much better.
can you tell me what is wrong with the timer solution i proposed earlier?
and if you really dont like it we could try implementing RB EC, im sure both players who “AF camp” and those who dont will enjoy that game mode more than a cramped deathmatch mess.
Sorry for this, I miss understood and thought you were still talking about AF AAA. I share your hatred for OP AI AA units on the battlefield. Some might be realistic, but Gaijin did buff it too strong through the past years. Gaijin loves us too die to AI AA in general since it gives both the repair penalty and takes away the reward for a real player. Honestly I guess you hate it more then AF AA.
I sure do, we remain divided over the AF AA which you hate and I at least don’t mind and probably even like being part of this game.
Take care, as a ground pounder I will do my best to take out as much enemy AA positions as possible so you can safely dogfight!
What do you like about AF AAA?
If it’s the fact it often saves you, I have seriously bad news.
I’m almost never saved by AF AAA. But I have a simple rule - if I have a reasonable chance to win and then make it back to base - I will just stay and fight. I often engage well into enemy territory (I like to climb at higher speed than most), so I rarely even have a chance to return. And it’s not like I really want.
And guess what, basically in most battles either some guy runs to AF as soon, as I have an advantage, or the battle lasts way longer than it should because someone is circling the AF/using it to bait people/reset the fight.
In some situations several people on my team die to AF AAA because they want to end the match.
I see absolutely no benefit to AF AAA for my gameplay.
And there are also some really fun players who: