Air RB Battle Rating Concerns and Suggestions for Higher Tiers (10.0+)

[Circleati]

@Panther2995

Having more missiles doesnt mean too much when your enemy can utilize them better while notching your missile thanks to superior flight performance and HMD, seems like you’re the one who doesnt understand.

so both, my point was that in a fight between 1 party who has bad flight performance but does have missiles vs another party who has good flight performance and zero missiles i would rather be in the former

@Panther2995

Personal opinion.

yes it is

@Panther2995

15-20km is the best distance to use them, it will give you enough room to notch incoming missiles.

theres a funny tactic in the news recently its called not giving the enemy the idea to fire missiles at you in the first place its becoming quite popular among the youth

@Panther2995

In terms of what? Flight performance?

yes, that is why i said “performing” sorry if i was unclear

@Panther2995

F-16C is the best accelerating F-16 while having best energy retention

no??? the f16a does by a mile, the f16C is heavy, its extra weight is barely offset by the added thrust and even then it still has far far worse general flight performance than any other F16 other than the f16D

@Panther2995

Have you not any airbrakes?

they take far more time to slow you down than the funny button does

@Panther2995

Yeah funny button that makes your speed instantly dissapear, smart F-16C will easily trap you in rate fight where it will kill you easily.

being able to dump all your speed at once has its advantages and disadvantages sure, it makes you insta lose any fight against more than 1 enemy but it sure makes it easy to dogfight a single enemy

@Panther2995

Much better radar
Much better NCTR
Much better IR missiles
More missiles
More top speed
HMD
Better RWR and TVC.

*slightly better radar
youre judging a plane based of NCTR??
sure ig
and yet the f18 is the only thing that has even close to the same number of missiles hmmm
not exactly a difficult fight
sure
roughly equal RWR maybe a little better
TVC? what whys that here, you mean the feature that really only adds necessary weight and yet still the su30sm cant out dogfight nearly anything?

@Panther2995

So what were you saying again?

i already said that I think the finnish f18C is probably one of the worst 14.0, buts its just not bad enough at anything to go down to 13.7 with decompression sure its relative BR could go down but it doesnt need to in the current state of warthunder

other than that have you tried using the f18 at anything other than BVR?

regardless since this is a somewhat interesting thread, ill be happy to say I lose this ‘argument’ if it means we dont get this thread locked for being off topic

[Panther2995]

@Circleati

slightly better radar

Slighty better_

This shows you have no idea what you’re talking about.

@Circleati

youre judging a plane based of NCTR??

NCTR gives huge situational awareness against enemy.

@Circleati

and yet the f18 is the only thing that has even close to the same number of missiles hmmm

Yet its one of the worst performing top tier jet, for example Rafale has 8 missiles but beats F-18 in every way and has best winrate and K/D ratio at top tier, obviously you dont know what you’re talking about.

@Circleati

roughly equal RWR maybe a little better

RWR band on Su30 is much better.

@Circleati

not exactly a difficult fight

R-73 is superior in dogfights, seems like you never experienced it.

@Circleati

TVC? what whys that here, you mean the feature that really only adds necessary weight and yet still the su30sm cant out dogfight nearly anything?

Just like funny button on F-18C that makes sitting duck

Also i would recommend not to speak about vehicles you dont have, its obvious you’re talking without any experience which exposes your wrong ideas.

[Circleati]

@Panther2995

R-73 is superior in dogfights, seems like you never experienced it.

my answer to the better IR missiles was

@Circleati

sure ig

the thing youre quoting was me replying to the more top speed part of your original comparison, which is not a difficult fight because yes the f18 has a not great top speed

have you considered learning how conversations work?

@Panther2995

Just like funny button on F-18C that makes sitting duck

yeah, but at least the funny button doesnt add unnecessary weight

@Panther2995

Also i would recommend not to speak about vehicles you dont have, its obvious you’re talking without any experience which exposes your wrong ideas.

wow, youre so desperate youre resorting to statshaming me? (also thunderskill? in 2025? are you 90 years old?)

i know how the f18 flight model performs and I have experience with planes that require similar gameplay

anyway

@Circleati

regardless since this is a somewhat interesting thread, ill be happy to say I lose this ‘argument’ if it means we dont get this thread locked for being off topic

[Panther2995]

@Circleati

wow, youre so desperate youre resorting to statshaming me?

i know how the f18 flight model performs and I have experience with planes that require similar gameplay

anyway

Its not statshaming, you’re talking about vehicles you dont own and having experience on them, so tell me why should i take your words seriously when you never experienced them in the first place?

@Circleati

i know how the f18 flight model performs and I have experience with planes that require similar gameplay

anyway

Circleati:

You never experienced R-73 or any other Su platform which proves my point even more.

Your only true top tier experience is the EFT which is not even our main discussion.

[Circleati]

@Panther2995

You never experienced R-73 or any other Su platform.

1. i wasnt talking about the r73 or Su platforms there
2. i have experienced the r73, maybe if you think really hard youll figure out how

[Panther2995]

@Circleati

i have experienced the r73, maybe if you think really hard youll figure out how

Oh you mean bison? ı was explicitly talking about how R-73’s performance on Su platforms, not some garbage 3rd gen that is heavily modified.

Anyway this discussion is pointless, come back once you unlock those vehicles and experience them.

Until then i will not take your words seriously.

[Circleati]

@Panther2995

Oh you mean bison?

no that wasnt what i was talking about, heres a hint, its got nothing to do with what I have played

@Panther2995

ı was explicitly talking about how R-73’s performance on Su platforms, not some garbage 3rd gen that is heavily modified.

well thats funny, i wasnt even talking about the r73

@Panther2995

Until then i will not take your words seriously.

dont worry i stopped taking your works seriously a while ago

[Panther2995]

@Circleati

dont worry i stopped taking your works seriously a while ago

Funny how arrogant you are when you’re talking about vehicles you dont own them.

Meanwhile i got all of them and talking with experience, this childish behavior is exactly the reason why you cant be taken seriously.

Cheers.

[Circleati]

@Panther2995

Funny how arrogant you are

takes one to know one :)

[Panther2995]

At least my arrogance comes from experience, meanwhile you got nothing on you :)

[Morvran]

@Bloodpörne

Mirage 2000D-R1
BR Change: 12.3 → 12.0

While the strike variants of the Mirage 2000 have good flight models, they do not have radar missiles and are limited with 2 IR missiles.

The Tornado Gr4 should also move down then.

@Bloodpörne

F-4J, F-4S, F-4J(UK), Phantom FGR.2, Phantom FG.1
BR Change: 12.0 → 11.7

Currently when you get uptiered to 12.3, you start facing aircraft that have superior flight models and weaponry. These Phantoms cannot face 13.0, there are just too many aircraft way better than you and makes flying these machines not enjoyable due to the matchmaker. Even if you get a slight uptier you face Mirage 2000’s, F-16’s, F/A-18’s. I think placing these Phantoms at the same BR as the MiG-23ML’s is fair. There are not many 10.7 aircraft that will be affected anyway (A-7E, A-6E TRAM, F-5A, Jaguar GR.1A/A/E, Buccaneer S.2B, F-104G, Mirage IIIE).

F-4S might be too strong in this regard to move down. Agile-Eagle is a potent upgrade. I’d also like to see the FGR2 buffed up (9Ls and/or Skyflash SuperTEMPs are an option for it) that way it creates some difference between the FGR2 and FG1.

[WARTURTLE09]

@Bloodpörne

Yak-141
BR Change: 12.7 → 13.0

Add R-73 and R-77. I know they are subjective additions to an already experimental aircraft but it would be cool to see.

Hell no bro. Only 4 missiles and 60 flares at 13.0 would be useless. Its already not being played alot

[M41_Flamethrower]

The F16-ADF needs to go down to 12.3 and the F16A should go down to 12.0. How on earth is the f16ADF and F16A a br above/ equal to in br as the 12.3 f18? it gets access to up to 4 sparrows, double that of the aircaft a br ABOVE it. There is absolutely zero reason for the adf to be equal in br to the premium f18, which almost has double its missiles…

[Stockholm_Blend]

@M41_Flamethrower

The F16-ADF needs to go down to 12.3 and the F16A should go down to 12.0. How on earth is the f16ADF and F16A a br above/ equal to in br as the 12.3 f18?

No. It needs to be solved by nerfing F/A-18A up to 12.7

Not buffing F-16A/ADF shamelessly undertiered.

Imagine F-5E/MiG-21bis fighting against F-16A

[AIM-9_Is_Coming]

@Bloodpörne

F-4J, F-4S, F-4J(UK), Phantom FGR.2, Phantom FG.1
BR Change: 12.0 → 11.7

Currently when you get uptiered to 12.3, you start facing aircraft that have superior flight models and weaponry. These Phantoms cannot face 13.0, there are just too many aircraft way better than you and makes flying these machines not enjoyable due to the matchmaker. Even if you get a slight uptier you face Mirage 2000’s, F-16’s, F/A-18’s. I think placing these Phantoms at the same BR as the MiG-23ML’s is fair. There are not many 10.7 aircraft that will be affected anyway (A-7E, A-6E TRAM, F-5A, Jaguar GR.1A/A/E, Buccaneer S.2B, F-104G, Mirage IIIE).

Or giving AIM-9L’s to British Phantoms.

@Bloodpörne

MiG-29 (9-12A), MiG-29 (9-12B), MiG-29 (9-13)
BR Change: 12.7 → 12.3

Remove R-27ER. The early MiG-29’s struggle because they only get 2 radar missiles that are really good but you are set back once you have R-60M’s left. The R-27ER was originally a balancing choice when it was R-27R vs AIM-7M. Also this is a late variant R-27 missile on early MiG-29 variants which doesn’t make too much sense. This change would make the aircraft comparable to the F/A-18A or Mirage 2000C-S4 that are also at 12.3. These early MiG-29’s don’t really stand a chance against 13.7 aircraft decked out with ARH missiles and IR missiles with IRCCM.

Or remove R-27ER and add historical R-73?

@Bloodpörne

Yak-141
BR Change: 12.7 → 13.0

Add R-73 and R-77. I know they are subjective additions to an already experimental aircraft but it would be cool to see.

Unnecessary, this will ruin it completly.

Would add here Kurnass 2000 on the list with BR change: 12.3 → 12.0/11.7
As it have only IR missiles and lacks SARH missiles (unlike F-4EJ Kai). Reminding that F-16A get’s the same amount of missiles but with much better airframe and sits on the exact same BR.

[ares94r]

Can we remove magic 2 from f1c and move it br a little lower

[Morvran]

@AIM-9 Is Coming

Or giving AIM-9L’s to British Phantoms.

As we have 2 identical aircraft, would make sense to move 1 down and give the other buffs. FG1 would be the sensible option to drop down in BR because its current loadout is as strong as it ever got with the FAA and it wasnt until it transfered to the RAF that it got anything more

[AlvisWisla]

@AIM-9 Is Coming

Or remove R-27ER and add historical R-73?

13.0 Mig-29 already exists.
The first Mig-29s shouldn’t be 13.0.

[Beeschurger]

@Ion_492

The Russian/Hungarian ones get their historical loadouts at 12.7

R-73A + 27ER on MiG-29 wont stay at 12.7.

@Ion_492

because they are not fun with just R-60Ms.

i know all about that, trust me.