Addition of Air to Air Refuelling

[joshje100]

This is a suggestion for the addition of air to air refuelling mechanics for Air Simulator battles.

Air to air refuelling plays a major role in modern combat operations and has done so for a number of years. It is often vital in making sure that aircraft can not only make it to the target but also make it back.

I propose adding various refuelling aircraft to the maps of Air Simulator Battles that would fly in a circular pattern to allow for players to rendezvous and refuel their aircraft without the need to land on the airfield.

As an example let’s use the Denmark map.

(Can you tell I’m not an artist? :) )

The blue line represents a tanker at higher altitudes meant to refuel fighters and other aircraft that are at these altitudes.

The green line represents a tanker at lower altitudes meant to refuel slower attackers that would struggle to reach the higher tanker.

This would then be repeated for the other team to also give them options for ait to air refuelling.

Some aircraft I was thinking could be good options to be the tanker aircraft are:

• Blue Team

• • Boeing KC-135 Stratotanker
• • Boeing KC-46 Pegasus
• • Airbus A330 MRTT
• • Lockheed Martin KC-130
• • McDonnell Douglas KC-10 Extender
• • Airbus A400M Atlas

• Red Team

• • Ilyushin Il-78 Midas
• • Xi’an Y-20 (YY-20)

Now one concern with air to air refuelling is the different systems in use with various aircraft. Some use the Probe and Drogue system where the aircraft is fitted with a probe which the pilot manoeuvres into a drogue basket being towed by the tanker (think F/A-18, Rafale, Tornado), whilst others use the Flying Boom system which is placed into the fuel hatch of the aircraft by the Boom Operator located in the tanker (F-16, F-15, F-22). But I do believe a solution to this could be to have 2 tankers at each altitude, one using the Probe and Drogue system and the other using the Flying Boom, you would then be shown which tanker you can refuel with based on the aircraft you are flying. This really is just an issue for the blue side or NATO aircraft as these use both systems, the majority of red side aircraft use the Probe and Drogue system however it may be necessary to add a Flying Boom tanker to the red side for the various NATO exported aircraft provided to them through sub trees.

A bonus of this would be that this also provides new targets to attack or defend. Destroying the opposing tankers would lead to the enemy team losing the advantages of the tankers and would make them again reliant on their airfields to refuel.

The same tankers could also be incorporated into the Test Flight maps, where a tanker that is compatible with your aircraft will spawn again at a high and low altitude where you can practice air to air refuelling.

Overall I think the addition of air to air refuelling could make for more interesting and dynamic gameplay for Air Sim and open the door for more similar systems like AWACS and more AI air targets like cargo aircraft.

Would you like to see Air to Air Refuelling added to the game (to Air Sim)?

• Yes
• No

If added would you like to see Air to Air Refuelling added to the Test Flight to practice with?

• Yes
• No

If added would you like for Air to Air Refuelling to be added to other gamemodes like Air Realistic Battles

• Yes
• No

[Morvran]

I really like the idea of having A2A refueling, but I can never think of a way to prevent

A) anyone trying to refuel from just being a free kill
B) the tanker surviving for more than 2 seconds

Maps are just too small currently for it to be practical. But would love at least to see them start working out the kinks and add it alongside much much larger maps

[joshje100]

@Morvran

A) anyone trying to refuel from just being a free kill

Maybe with big enough maps you could be far enough away from the enemy to be able to refuel before they can get to you.

@Morvran

B) the tanker surviving for more than 2 seconds

Could be a call in where it hangs around for some time after before despawning rather than something always around.

But definitely need bigger maps for it to work.

I think it could work well when paired with modes like this though.

DCS inspired PvE mode for air battles

poll A small team of players (4-6) have to choose the best loadout for the mission that’s generated, from SEAD/DEAD to taking out convoys to air interception. There will also be enemy aircraft that patrols the AO and will be alerted to the destruction of their friendly units. Players start out in a briefing screen outlining the tasks/mission as well as what enemies will be encountered, it will detail where the enemy targets are on the map (in modes like SB and some RB variants only the grid zon…

[Morvran]

Yeah, those oculd work. The only idea i’ve had is to extend the maps and have an extra 20km slice behind each side’s airfields. Have A2A refuelers within that area. They get natural protection due to being deep within each team’s lines and potentially strong SAMs in the area.

Does mitigate the value for being able to refuel without heading all the way back to base, but would be quicker than full RTB and if you only need fuel, then it would be more useful too. Especially for lower BR aircraft where climbing isnt as easy.

[TomLiu126]

@joshje100

a solution to this could be to have 2 tankers at each altitude, one using the Probe and Drogue system and the other using the Flying Boom

Actually can be much simpler than this. The KC-46 and A330 MRTT both can simultaneously carry boom and probe-and-drogue systems, so just have one tanker carrying both systems suffices.

KC-30A (Australian A330 MRTT) demonstrating refuelling RAAF Hornets using the drogue pods; the flying boom is stowed.

KC-46 using drogue pod to refuel Hornet; the flying boom is stowed.

It also makes me wonder whether it’s practical to refuel three planes at once using the KC-46 or A330 MRTT (two using the drogue pods and one using the centreline boom). It’s common to refuel two aircraft at once using the wing pods, and there also exists this image of a R3Y Tradewind refuelling four aircraft at once:

[Mathll]

Yes, but only if the AI ​​is modeled after the bot squadrons we have to defendattack, and that move at Mach 2 speed—otherwise it’s not fun.

Jokes aside, that would be great, but on slightly larger maps.

[Sea_Harrier_FRS1]

I don’t want to share Air-to-Air refuelinging with ARB retards!!

[SoyBeanInhaler]

Sim maps are too small for this right now, if we had bigger maps this would work.

Where you propose the flight path to be is like the center of combat, and just wouldn’t really work.

Plus not really needed right now as maps are small enough where you can just go to the airfield and also team.

+1 BUT only if we get bigger maps in sim

[Caernarvon02]

I like this idea as noobs will think its easier than landing and die in an even more embarrassing way than failing a takeoff/landing

[zaedbe]

The tankers should of course be spaced out and around the less played parts of the map BUT

It’s your own decision if you want to take the risk to get more fuel without landing, however the tankers should fly at 5km altitude to be right below contrail height and harder for enemies to spot

[bbbdddaaa]

@joshje100

Xi’an Y-20 (Yu-20)

@joshje100
Correction:
The Xi’an Y-20(运-20, Yun-20)'s refuel variant is the Xi’an YY-20(运油-20, yunyou-20)

[Sebbo_the_Plebbo]

+1 only if we get Vickers Valiant as a tanker

[Sea_Harrier_FRS1]

And maybe a random Bucc doing a tanker role defending it form scummy Americans

[VanDunderPL]

YES, but maps must be at least 1500x1500 kilometers

[Arnoldio]

This… its like adding long artillery systems in arena sized ground battles… oh wait.

It would simply not be used because there is no need to refuel. Bombers already have hours worth of fuel, many jets have drop tanks and refueling aircraft do not operate directly in areas of operation. There is literally no instance (except BI, but that cannot be refuelled anyway) where extra fuel is needed to reach a place. And those WT players that have the patience to fly for 1 hour with refuelling before even seeing action are playing DCS. It’s kinda like adding ballistics, wind, corriolis effect, humidity, temperature and rifling twist to CS2 AWP, because realistic sniping.