16v16 is too much for air rb

Respawning could certainly work in a separate air rb ec mode if it was implemented correctly.

It would just take some clever air rb mechanics. That could include descent aaa, a zone around airfields where enemies are spotted. Possibly even AI aircraft to assist if the ticket difference between the winning and losing teams become too great.

It could also even be mitigated by dynamic weather. A system could be created where if one team starts spawn camping and winning by a good margin, clouds could develop over the airfields to prevent enemies from spotting players taking off. All of this combined with what i said above would mitigate airfield camping.

As far as abusing these systems, Gaijin would just need to make sure objectives and AI targets bleed enough tickets and earn you enough points to make them worth it. That way if someone is camping their airfield, just do objectives to force them out and away from their umbrella of assistance.

Gaijin would just need to develop game mechanics to balance this out.

Im not saying regular air rb should get respawns. That should remain a smaller team, more hardcore mode but if AB and Sim and every other mode in Warthunder has some kind of respawn option, Air RB should too. It would allow for some really fun possibilities in the future such as new types of vehicles, weapons and game mechanics.

I wouldn’t be so allergic to the idea of respawns for a separate Air RB mode.

Right now Air RB feels like a game mode developed by the intern in 2008. Its really dated.

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Air RB had a flow to it once. It was easy to get a sixth sense of what was going on. Your choices mattered and the ticket bleed was far less obnoxious. Your team would lose if you let the enemy groundpound hard enough, but you wouldn’t get slammed in 10 minutes by one guy fragging some AI and letting the ground units do the rest.

Being a dated design doesn’t mean it was bad. Gaijin did an excellent job screwing up what was good about it, without fixing the good parts.

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I still think Air RB is descent at the lower BR’s. Those BR’s have specific vehicles that are problems.

But Air RB completely falls apart at the upper BR’s.

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Part of the change in all of air RB that individual choices matter less in 16v16. The game’s focus shifted to be on the grind for top tier rather than becoming good where you were at. New joins are focused on the stuff in the trailers and could care less about the WWII and early cold war vehicles blocking their way to the top.

Therefore, I see players flying suicidally at prop tier because they do not care about preserving their vehicle, they are there for quick action. Yes, a game should provide action, but air RB has layers that they are missing. For the players that do care about getting better, their efforts don’t matter because your contributions are a tiny part of what is going on.

I remember many times in old 12v12 where we won because I made an early game play, or lost because I did something as small as missed a shot. That mattered. Now, it matters less. And that’s a crying shame.

It’s easy to get frustrated when you do great and still lose, or get hammered because your team failed and you can’t do anything about it. The path that i took to becoming a decent air RB player is now closed to the people who want to learn.

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Think about it, you will be in mig 29 (old one) plus some wallet warriors. Match is already lost, 16 vs 16 is ok. Less premium in both teams (8 out of 16 than 7 out of 10). All this premium phantoms neet to play somwhere.

and same amount of premiums will be on the oposite side, it was like that before the change and it was already playable. And also Im rather gonna take my chances in 1v4, 1v5 scenario then 1v8 or 1v10.

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While i agree that 16vs16 is chaos.

Small games suck complate *** when youve got 4 ju288s and 1 do335 and one fw190. And the fw190 is trying to turnfight and the do335 is side climbing.

And the other team has 3 spitfires and 3 p47s. All level 100s

How we fix that idk.

Thats why I avoid 6.0 while playing Germany. That br is just a cash grab for Gaijin.

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Back in 12v12 the end of a match could be an enjoyable thing, with nice duels. Now it’s a hopeless 1v10.

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German 6.0 being dogshit is not because of the gamemode, its because of the Ju 288 spam.

Small games are fine if they limit the amount of attackers/bombers to being a quarter of the team at most.

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Still got the fw190 trying to be an energy fighter and a do335 side climbing.

This is what the main PvP mode of a game should be.
Quickly getting into the action, and actually PvPing against the other players, with a reasonable expectation of how long 1 match is going to be taking on average.

RB is a TDM mode, and it should be. Thats the main selling point of the game, quickly going into battles vs other players, with a relatively low entry barrier; if I want to PvE and spend like an hour flying around potentially doing nothing, I boot up DCS and not WT.

I boot up WT Air RB to go slam other players, and thats the one strength this game has, besides the huge amount of vehicles that are available.

(before someone comments with the “tHeN jUsT pLaY aRcAdE”, AB flight models are completely different from how RB FMs are, theres reloads in AB, and on top of that its a mode with respawns, its essentially a completely different game; -so if you want your roleplay simulation my counter to your “tHeN jUsT pLaY aRcAdE” is: “then just play Sim”)

Thats also why the increased size maps are shit. It has nothing to do with where the objectives are (the objectives in Air RB are basically irrelevant, especially at higher tiers, they’re literally just there to give attackers/ bombers a pseudo-purpose), or how the players in the game are playing, in a PvP mode players will always choose whatever playstyle wins them the most games; thats why in top tier air the meta is flying low and forming a furball, because thats how you quickly get kills, because its in a furball where the individual player’s mechanical skill matters the most; because a skilled player can rack up kills quickly in a furball, and thus win the game through the snowball effect.

The issue now is that people complained that “the large maps are boring to play and shit for grinding” (which is just factually true) so in Gaijins infinite wisdom, instead of reverting the map changes, they instead increased the player count from 12 to 16 per team, which just overall objectively made the gameplay at higher tiers worse (since no matter the map size you get the same furball forming due to that just being how the game plays, but a 16v16 furball is much harder to control for a palyer than a 12v12 one, and the impact of an individual player also massively decreases; to have the same effect as killing 5 people you now have to kill 7).

IRCCM missiles that are, under a lot of conditions unflareable, existing now + planes still having pretty limited countermeasure counts just made all those issues with 16v16 and the larger maps even worse.

I think in lower tiers (like sub 10.7) 16v16 is honestly fine, because without potent missiles in the equation and with energy states actually mattering its less of an issue that there’s more players in the match. However what is not playable at all is the fact that you can get the maps that are 90km airfield to airfield in your 8.0-9.0 jets.

The 90km maps are already boring in top tier, but they’re still bearable there with jets that go mach 1.3 on the deck, but in a jet that goes 900 spawing on one of those maps is just a major waste of time (let alone the fact that an 8.0 also takes forever to even reach top speed).

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We need a return of the maps we lost.

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16v16 just causes blowout after blowout, its the most grading top tier has ever been, and I cant believe people defend this as good game design

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Im starting to think that 32 players per battle has something to do with WT rapid player increase in quite short period of time and that servers cant handle that many players anymore. This week (maybe thats just because of the event) player count went above 200 000 at one point and stayed like this for a couple hours. What Im thinking is that Gaijin servers cant generate enough lobbies (battles) for that large amount of players and thats what forced them to introduce larger player count in battles.

And if that is the case that means that Gaijin needs to start revorking the modes to accept that many players, upgrading the servers if we want to see revert to 12v12, or the easiest and worst thing (at least in my opinion), increase the player count again.

If they want to rework the modes, then for Air RB they should rework it to have the objectives spread out over the map instead of clustered up in the middle promoting furball style gameplay

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Im not saying that they want to rework them, I just said that they are maybe forced to do that, no one knows except them and thats a bad thing, if they have any sort of limitation thats preventing them to do certain things i think that we have the right to know what the problem is, that way there might be better understanding with the players that didnt want certain change to come (that can also apply to 16v16).

I disagree, It is nearly impossible to have a proper 1v1 or 2v2 dogfight without having several other players go for you, or the people you are fighting. There is too much going on when there is a 16v16 match, and 90% of the time the match ends in a 4+ vs 1.


This match for example ended in a 13v2.

Other than that, I agree with what you have said.

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I agree that the main gamemode for Air RB should remain TDM. 16 vs 16 is ridiculous though, even for sub 10.7. Id still say tier 6 Air RB should go back to 12 vs 12 where tier 7 and 8 shouldn’t be above 10 vs 10. Once advanced fox 3’s are introduced, they may need to reduce that even further to 8 vs 8.

Air RB EC should still be implemented. Sim is a completely different game altogether and that style of playing is much better served by games like DCS. It’s not at all what the vast majority of WT players enjoy the game for. Its baffling why only Sim got an EC mode. Its probably the style of gameplay that needed EC the least.

I don’t know what the solution is here anymore. Id love an RB EC mode and a reduction of player counts in the top tiers but i don’t think Gaijin cares. Top tier Air RB is unplayable for me atm. Anything other than the meta vehicles get annihilated very easily and i typically like playing the non-meta vehicles but theres just nothing u can do with them anymore.

I cant imagine what this mode is going to look like with advanced fox 3’s. It’s going to be a disaster.

I just think Aviation isn’t really the focus anymore for Gaijin. So long as people can grind, that’s all Gaijin cares about. The air trees have just become support trees for ground. It’s so clear when you play Ground RB and then you play Air RB. The game mode for Air RB feels like it was designed by a small child in 2008, where Ground RB feels like a true AAA game mode.

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Next update is close, let’s hope 16v16 is reduced when it drops

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