If you want I am more than happy to do the exact same thing but with sim controls.
You know what, for the hell of it.
No trimming because I’m lazy.
Idc. I don’t think it has changed. I just was going to point out that it wasn’t in sim. You could do it, just to prove to the other person
Ok… The situation you are showing here is clearly not the same situation I described. You are inn a stable flight at around groundlevel. You are not even near of an altitude of about 3000 to 4000m meters, and in a dogfight situation.
It shows, you don´t know what you are doing. Or better, you are just trolling.
And no, I´m not a liar.
[quote=“FlipAllTheTables, post:5, topic:150041, full:true”]
So… I’m the liar in your opinion?
Well. ok… So tell me… What changes has been made to the 109 F4? There clearly are changes made.
The difference between RB and Sim is that with RB, you basically point towards where you want your plane to be facing, and the instructor tries to make the plane point in that direction, while automatically taking care of trimming and not going past critical AoA.
The instructor doesn’t exist in sim. That’s basically it. You have to manage your plane’s torque a lot more and such.
Ask and ye shall receive, my liege.
Over 4000 meters, in Sim, sustaining ~196 km/h in a 25 deg climb.
Not sure why altitude matters, since, again, it depends on IAS. 195 km/h IAS at sea level isn’t magically different than 195 km/h IAS at 4 km. The only difference is the actual speed your plane is traveling at, but IAS is basically the speed your plane is performing at. This is a dumb hill to die on.
WTF Dude??? Who is talking about RB?
Doesn´t look like Sim to me at all. If u fly like that in sim, you should be banned immediately.
2nd: What are you trying to show us here? How good you can balance the plane in a stable non dogfight situation? Well, good job…
But it is not what I saied. So liar… what is going on? What are you trying to do here???
Looks like you are just another troll.
If you actually read you might notice why RB was brought up.
Ironic that you’ve been calling me a troll when what you’ve just said is a text book case of trolling.
I’m showing the stall speed is way lower than 320 km/h. It’s even lower than 195 km/h.
Stalling happens because the angle of attack of the wings is too high for them to continue generating lift. Stall speed is the speed your plane has to be traveling at to have enough AoA to generate lift.
If you’re stalling in a dogfight that is going higher than stall speed, that is happening because you’re pulling too much and that means too much AoA on the wings to continue generating lift. In other words, you stalling at 320+ km/h is literally a you issue, and has nothing to do with the plane reaching its stall speed. Literally just don’t pull hard.
But if you want to be so picky, here’s me doing a vertical spiral at over 4 km high and not stalling until I reach 130 km/h IAS.
Again, all of this with gun pods.
I’d also like to mention I never used flaps in any of these examples. Flaps produce lift and decrease AoA so they would let me pull much harder and decrease the stall speed even further.
Ok, I was replying to your post, so I couldn´t see what you were writing afterwards.
Ok. still not the same situation…
Dude… So you say, from one day to the other day I forgot about that? And magically if I hopp from the 109 F4 to the 109 G2, I remember that point again.But if I hop back to the 109 F4 I forget about that again???
I know about that. And I had enough dogfights in the 109 F4 to say, it never was a thing to think too much about. The F4 was a nice stable plane to fly (compared to the G6).
But now, it does the same sudden “snaprolls” (one wing stalles and ur plane performes a quick roll to one side) than the G6.
With your logick, there also should be no difference between the 109 G2/Trop and the 109 G6. But there is.
And no… I´m neither a liar nor a troll.
Why? Coz I pointed out, that you saied, you are in sim and you are able to use viewsettings that are not allowed in sim… Interesting.
I see, so your situation is basically any situation that isn’t the examples I’ve showed. Cool.
Any plane does, if put in the correct situation. Even the Bf 109 G-2/trop, that you’ve said doesn’t, will snaproll.
It’s RB but with “full real controls”. In other words, I have access to all the RB views, but the controls are identical to sim.
For all intents and purposes, it is sim.
The examples you gave us here are sunday afternoon rides to the ice cream parlor.
It´s a totally different situation if I ride my motorcycle to the ice cream parlor or if I ride it on the racetrack.
So basically yes… any real dogfight situatiion at 3000m to 4000m would have been way better than that nonsence.
But to make sure, you even try to do it right…
I was fighting a 109 F4 of the american tech tree. We did that about 30 to 45 minutes. Mostly without gunpods and 30 min of fuel (about 25 minutes at destination) with a Thrustmaster T16000M FCS Hotas.
And in this specific situation it was the fiirst time I noticed, there is a hughe difference. I had more to fight with my plane than I could fight with the opponent.
The reason, why I´m so upset about you is, you are trying to make me look like a fool whos not knowing what he is talking about with some nonsence pics and videos that show nothing.
But previously you write one sentence statements like “It has not been changed for years.” (well… but later it changed this year…) Maybe there are other changes too…
It really looks like, you just try to troll us here. Otherwise you wouldn´t have flown this sunday afternoon rides and saied like “Oh, look, it´s not stalling… You all must be to stupide to fly the plane right…” (I know, you didn´t write that down, but it is litterally what you are saying)
But it hasn’t. The parameters have literally been the same for actual years.
The only things that have changed are literally just how those parameters are written on the FM file, due to changes in the format of the FM file, AKA how the file is structured.
Those changes apply to literally every single plane, so if you want to be literal, then no FM file has ever stayed the same for years. However the actual values for the parameters of the Bf 109 F-4 have not changed for a damn long time.
And I know there aren’t other changes, because I literally have looked at all the changes that have been done to the Bf 109 F-4’s FM file over the course of 4 years.
And of course, it is insanely easy to dismiss everything you’ve stated. Fact is, you’ve provided no proof that the Bf 109 F-4 has changed at all besides saying it feels different because of a scenario which is genuinely impossible to replicate. The fact that it is impossible to recreate means you can’t actually compare this with previous results.
Even if you are correct in that the Bf 109 F-4 will snap roll and stall at 320+ km/h in 4km duels, there is literally not a single ounce of evidence that it wasn’t like this before.
Additionally, I can see you joined this game this year, 5 months ago. Well, at least from the account you’re using here, and assuming you aren’t breaking TOS.
In these 5 months there have been literally 0 changes. And that’s with proof. Not even FM file format changes.
The only way the Bf 109 F-4 could’ve changed, is if EVERY PLANE changed. Which would be noticeable.
Oh… I just notice, you are on Mouse and Keyboard…
Thats the reason you didn´t noticed the difference. Could have saved us both a hughe amount of time.
If you are on a joystick, and you do not change your settings, you recognise these changes (even minor ones).
So it is impossible to go to the Denmark map, and dogfight a american 109 F4 in a public lobby? Ok… looks like I must have hacked the game to do so.
But like I saied before. I stop this discussion with you here right now, coz with your setup, you are not able to tell a difference.
Mouse aim is default. However, in every single test except the very first one, I was in “full real controls”, which is literally something I said.
If you don’t understand that “full real controls” is literally the controls used in the simulator game mode, that is not my problem.
It is impossible to recreate everything you did in that duel.
That’s a complete nonsense argument caused by sheer ignorance, and the stubborness to not admit you’re wrong.
You’ve latched on to the fact that the screenshot shows mouse aim, even though the video proves I wasn’t using mouse aim.
You’ve ignored the fact that there are literally 0 code changes on the Bf 109 F-4 since you’ve been playing the game.
You cannot possibly comprehend that instead of the Bf 109 F-4 having changed, you simply made an error when dueling.
I also want to add, you are literally more likely to pick up changes to the FM with virtual joystick than actual joystick.
It´s totally different worlds we are talking about if you are flying with M&KB and I´m flying with a HOTAS.
You simply just can´t compare these 2 things with each other. No matter what settings you use.
It´s how the game handles these 2 things.
Ok… with your logic, I would have flown close to perfection in all my previous fiights I did.
I´m sure I didn´t… And like I said… It changed from the characteristics close to the G2/Trop to the characteristics of the G6. Why I´m so sure? Coz I don´t like to fly the G6 coz of this snaprolls. Thats why I fly the G2 even if it is way harder to look back.
So if there is a shift from one FM characteristics to the other… I “feel” it in the first dogfight I´m involved.
I´m sure, you are not a german main player like I am. You are playing with M&Kb. And I assume, you were not flying the german 109 F4 verry often within the last 3 month.
You’re correct. Hardware, like joysticks and racing wheels deteriorate and change in performance over time (I can confirm my racing wheel definitely changed over time, and it was a thrustmaster as well).
However the virtual joystick doesn’t. If you place the joystick in the same position, with the same plane, it will always do the same thing assuming you don’t change the in game settings.
And besides, there is literally no real difference on how the game handles inputs from the physical joystick to the virtual one. Both are just inputs on a joystick, the difference is that you use your mouse to input the joystick position on the virtual joystick. Even if your mouse changes, the actual virtual joystick doesn’t.
I didn’t say that, that’s not my logic, and stop making dumb arguments and putting them in my name. Just because I said you made a mistake when dueling doesn’t mean you’ve never made a mistake. Just that you haven’t done that mistake.
This just goes to show how dumb this is because now you’ve actually given me a time frame. And I’ve already actually given proof that no changes have happened in that time frame. I’ve debunked your statement before you even made it.
I’m still waiting for actual evidence rather than feeling. You know, something ACTUALLY TANGIBLE rather than just “it feels different than it was previously because of this random, impossible to recreate example”.
Since you seem to be more into subjective “gut feeling” than objective FM change history…how would you explain my own subjective observations of the FM: I have not felt a single change when flying 109 in several years.
The Bf.109F-4 is one of the most played planes in 1v1 Duels and also one of the most played planes in sim.
If anything was changed… people in the dueling communities would notice right away. Furthermore the changes would show up in the files as well.
The flight model has not been changed at all. What most likely happened is you are just rusty…or you ran into a player that has opposable thumbs and you pushed the plane beyond the limits it has always had.
There is no shift at the T16000, HAL sensors… . And it´s not even 3 month old…
Every Joystickuser in this game can confirm, that it is not the same flying with M&Kb than it is with a Stick…
So No…
The rest… you said is litterally nothing new… I make the same mistakes in dogfights… My style of flying the plane hasn´t changed… etc, etc…
But like I said… discussion endend…
Read what I wrote and do not quote out of content…
Im calling you schizophrenic
just use MEC