YaK-9K: Remove it's APHE belt or move it up to 5.7 in GRB

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
1343

It has less than two minutes of fuel at most, and the smallest amount of rounds per gun of any ShVAK-armed platform (45rpg). I will not deny it is strong, nor will I deny it has hilarious maneuverability that looks questionable given its wings are not that big. But it compresses in a dive way more than any jet except maybe the Yak-15/17 series - this is what prevents it from going up further.

I’d rather see the Komets go down instead, especially since those saw their fuel supply halved to just 3min.

I only have secondhand opinion of the 2S38, but again think that the things it is being compared to should come down instead. Yes, a lot of morons do buy it with no experience to back it up. But surely some experienced player do buy it, don’t they?

To my understanding, prior to one of the countless full reboots of how naval damage models work, the Freccia, Saetta, and several other vehicles with large numbers of rapid-firing small cannons were doing more damage than even the SKR-7, got punted up in BR, and then got forgotten up there after the damage system got turned on its head yet again.

There are other planes with 20mm cannons below 2.3, that alone is not enough to uptier it. The Yak-1 is fairly maneuverable, yes. But it is not maneuvering better than a Spitfire, Re-2001, or biplane. I suppose you could put it up to 2.7 and not much would change, though.

I take offense to the general line of thought “X vehicle is a problem, therefore nerf X without stopping to think, because i be ANGR MONKY about X”

In my eyes, the Yak-9K is only a problem because of how generally-hobbled SPAAG are at the same BR, and because of aircraft in general being killstreak powerups, thereby preventing people from first-spawning fighters to guard the skies. That encourages people to “rush to CAS ASAP before the other team spawns any counters.” It’s just really bad game design, and most of it ain’t the Yak’s fault.

Furthermore, I also see the likes of an F6F-5 with three individually-dropping 1000lb burgers as infinitely more dangerous - it can pop three tanks (or more if grouped) with ease while still preserving its air-to-air capabilities. No cannon CAS can truly do that, because vs aircraft, most or all of those planes now have the dead weight of that big gun.

For example, the Tempest Vickers P is not particularly good against aircraft due to low RoF and also the guns not exactly shooting straight even after getting the new 47mm cannons upgrade. Or the J7W1 now having at most 1/4 of its 30mm belt being effective against aircraft all for having 38mm pen APHE on the other 3/4 of its belt. Even the best case scenario, the Yak-9UT, still is worse than its same-BR counterparts at air-to-air even though it has twin 20mm guns for use in air-to-air. And those are the fighter examples - there are dozens more which use bomber or heavy attacker platforms that cannot hope to fight against enemy aircraft with the slightest amount of intelligence.

There is some Russian Bias in the game, though it is an unfortunate side effect of this game being a Russian company and needing to obey Russian laws. I bet we would see identical biases if any other nation currently ingame were to somehow buy out the War Thunder project.

1344

By this logic the D.501 and D.371 hs.9 should both be moved up to 2.7 or some such. The D.371 even higher since it has 2 20mm cannons amd both sit at 1.3

1345

Man… HAHAHAHA, which russian laws are you talking about? You really think Putin will throw BVVD in prison just because one tank or plane isn’t OP? I won’t discuss that as its the ravings of a madman, but jsut for you to know — Gaijin is now a Hungarian company and it’s not connected to Russian… Government?.. AHH…

Just take a rest and stop making up these strange excuses… Good luck

1346

I’m not ranting & raving about anything right now, FYI. Just a simple fact that both Gaijin and also Wargaming are Russian companies that portray Russia in an exceptionally positive light to not run afoul of the law, arguably overcorrecting while doing so.

Where a company bases itself for tax purposes =/= where its management and workforce are actually located. Gaijin Entertainment began in Russia, later moving to Belarus and now Hungary for tax evasion, the upper management is still Russian, they speak Russian in all their interview Q&As, etc.

Is there some national bias there? Probably yes. I bet the same thing would happen if War Thunder was owned by an American company with American vehicles getting excessive favoritism.

My point is that nationalistic bias is not the only likely cause, but rather a mix of things.

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1347

Gaijin is Hungarian, but yes, founded in Russia. Wargaming is Belarussian, but they separated and NOW wargaming is pro-ukrainian. So they’re as I said not connected to Russia. And how do you think Russia can influence to Hungarian company? If I make a game in a middle of nowhere where T-14 Armata is a bit worse than Abrams X, Putin will get me and ban my game? Seriously?

1348

It’s more that they do not know what Putin’s aging irrationality could cause. Thus they overcorrect in trying to avoid that question.

Neither is fully separated from Russia so long as they still do business there, either. Only if they do not serve customers in Russia, have no management with ties to Russia, and have no workforce in Russia can they truly claim they are “completely independent from Russia” in my viewpoint.

1349

The Yak-9K can literally outturn quite a few 5.0~ fighters.

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1350

Oh wow, because everyone knows you can only shoot down planes by turning with them.

Guess Bf 109 E-4 and Spitfire IIa to 5.0 then, right?

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1351

Even the Me-163 has little fuel available, but it’s at BR 8.0. It makes no sense to keep the BI at 6.7. It needs to go up in BR. It’s absurd that it remains at BR 6,7.

Man, I literally explained the problem that has been going on for years. If anyone here is annoyed because I pointed out this problem, it’s you. At least I was much more civil than you and didn’t call you a monkey.

1352

Turn fighting is the easiest and most reliably way to beat another plane. Which is why most people default to it. Don’t pretend being a great turn fighter doesn’t give you a big advantage. And that dodging a fly by from a BnZ fighter isn’t relatively easy if you see them coming.

Oh, and allows you to often turn, reverse, and get a barrage off at them in turn.

1353

Bruh, you think a 4.0 Yak-9K is going to win against any 5.0 fighter?

It’s gets outperformed so much that being able to have decent turn means practically nothing.

1354

What’s absurd is the difference between the two, where we differ is how to close said gap.

I was not calling you specifically that - I was referring to the general line of thought by seemingly the large fraction of the community over anything deemed “OP.” You aren’t, but that mode of thinking, which anyone, myself included, can fall into when sufficiently angry, is.

The gap between the two is indeed large. However, you should also remember that during that time, RealShatter occurred, and as a part of that, all gun ballistics on aircraft weapons were reduced, making the already bad MK108 velocity even worse, and generally making German MG151/20 considerably worse compared to all other jet guns as well.

Therefore, I instead propose to lower all the Komets (Shisui included), and leave the BI-2 where it is, unless the BI-2’s fuel supply is increased.

1355

And in a mode like Ground RB with no idiotmode red markers, it’s also not possible to use Target Tracking Cam, lock-on to the enemy marker, and then faceroll on your keyboard in perfect sync with enemy movements to deny them a killshot when they’re behind you. At best you can randomly wobble around, which is far easier to find a mistake in and take apart.

So a faster plane coming up suddenly on a Yak-9 that’s turnfighting (be it a K or UT) will without a doubt die and die quickly if the faster plane has even a few brain cells.

1356

At low throttle settings the BI has enough endurance to get multiple kills and is basically identical to a standard min fuel prop with normal fuel loads. You don’t need to fly with 100% throttle in that plane unless you really screwed up and need the full acceleration to get out of a bad engagement. 30% throttle is still enough to climb, accelerate and dive with.

1357

I am aware of this, but even with snail’s magic making rocket engines have physically impossible efficiencies, it’s still not exactly a lot when you factor in finding enemies and actually fighting them. I spaded the Ki-200 recently, which gets all of 4min tops, and even though it can cruise at similarly low throttle numbers fine, you’re still going to run dry far faster than most of your opponents.

I still think the Komets need to be lowered instead of the BI-2 going up.

1358

Wow, almost like that’s applicable to every plane in ground RB.

Oh and I almost forgot that the Yak-9T and Yak-K have literally the same performance as the Yak-9B at 3.0, but worse because they are heavier.

The only reason they ever ended up at 4.0 is because ShVAKs had really pathetic firepower, while the 37/45mm dealt like 4 times the damage, which isn’t the case anymore.

So they are already completely outperformed at 4.0.

1359

Indeed, and it’s why Air RB badly needs to see the idiotmode red markers removed.

I knew they were bad but that bad? Damn…

I do think making ShVAKs good is generally a good thing, but now the bigger guns are mostly irrelevant. Out of curiosity, was an APHE round developed for the 37mm as well or just the 45mm?

And I wonder if we’ll ever see the Yak-9K (57) with an even larger gun, just to make the special snowflakes cry more about CAS. Maybe the best time to add that would be after (re)buffing SPAAGs, lowering CAP costs, and forcibly giving everyone Naval-style default planes specifically so they can’t whine with any actual substance after a plane like that is added.

That explains why outside of this thread most people don’t mention much about the plane in actual matches, despite it being quite common to see.

1360

Nope. It simply used the same ammunition as the 37mm AA gun.

While the 45mm would use HE shells from naval AA guns so the APCR and APHE round can only considered experimental.

Not much info available but it was just an anti-bomber gun.

1361

How many times it has to be said that it works well in naval because naval units have AI AA?

1362

And how many times can I say that the current Naval setup inspired what I propose?

Effective SPAAGs that are as easy to swat down CAS with as CAS is to bomb or rocket tanks do not require AI-controlled guidance. They require rounds which function well against aircraft, and enough guidance by the game to teach average players both where and when to shoot, which even Arcade currently does not.

We have already seen several recent instances proving AI-guided weapons are not needed to remove anti-CAS whining.

The Coelian APHE buff caused a whole bunch to get used by generally skilled people, and because the Coelian could not just barely defend itself, but go on the offense melting most tank sides it ran into, now it was actually in position near the front line to swat down CAS trying to harass that front line. If non-radar SPAAGs received a short-range lead marker like I have proposed, they would become vastly more effective. Likewise if they also saw the inclusion of their currently-missing anti-tank rounds, and global rebuffs to all APCR and APDS were seen that the game badly needs in general.

Similarly, while I do not play top tiers, I saw the storm of forum threads and YouTube videos about how adding the current top tier SAMs really did help solve much of the problems with CAS, which plainly shows that most people will get off their asses and use the available counters if they work well.

And then most recently, the addition of default SPAAGs to every user’s lineup also helped reduce anti-CAS complaining, which proves that I was in fact correct here also.

Naval’s combination of AAA that works given to everybody and default planes given to everybody will shut down all the nonsensical complaining about CAS. Then with the useless white noise taken out of the picture, all of the actual structural problems will be laid bare to see for everyone.