I still disagree with you, but at this point it’s not worth trying to argue. All I will add is don’t discount the fact that Panzer IVs are comparatively small and thus easier to hide compared to the Chi-To and even the Chi-Nu II (which is considerably taller than the Panzer IVs).
Chi-to is 19 cm (probably the size of the cupula) taller than Panzer IV and Chi Nu 2 is only 7 cm more taller.
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To add to this, why aren’t there timed fuze shells for auto cannons, surely some nations had them.
It would lend better to spaa being spaa, but yes a lot of those 8.3 - 8.7 spaa just destroy tanks instead of focusing aircraft
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SPAAG killing tanks isn’t and shouldn’t be a problem. On WT’s sardine-can maps, SPAAG must move outside of their own spawns to get into places CAS doesn’t expect, to thus surprise CAS before it can react.
Their ability to kill tanks should be enhanced, not kept the same as now or neutered further. People clearly want to kill tanks with them no differently than they already do with IFVs (and quite a few of those IFVs also possess anti-air capabilities such as the Begleitpanzer and 2S38), and I personally see little difference between the two classes in that regard.
If we want to make dying to SPAAG in tanks less frustrating, only removing the obnoxious feature known as barrel damage will truly help, thereby making it no longer possible for SPAAG to prevent tanks from delivering a killshot on them so reliably. A general realistic nerf to APHE would also help, but the community seemed to vote against that due to CC misinformation, so…
Except all IFVs aren’t nearly as deadly as the Gepard, ZA-35, or itpsv. All Of which are known for walking enemy teams, and getting nukes in 2 mins or less.
Another bad idea.
Spaa’s job is to take down airplanes
I’ve said this a lot and I’ll say it again the Yak-9K isn’t that op. It is slower than a j21 somehow, it’s got a .50 to defend itself, and it’s made of paper. It could go down if it stalled/engine breaks after 3 round bursts. No, I haven’t played it but I’ve fought the yak enough to know
In 150 battles witht he Jagdpanzer IV i destroyed 256 tanks. Menawhile in 139 battles with the Yak-9K i destroyed 271 tanks and 46 planes.
Yes a fighter plane can outcalss destroying ground units a tank destroyer…
Is retarded OP.
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That is a 1) map problem 2) armor hole problem 3) barrel damage and 4) APHE postpen problem.
If maps did not consist primarily of cities, 30-35mm SPAAG would not be able to so easily get into effective gun range in the first place. Secondly, many tanks still possess armor gaps even long after the implementation of volumetric armor, which sadly has been done in a very piecemeal approach only to specific parts of specific vehicles due to the presumably high workload required to convert armor models in such a manner - and unfortunately the only real solution to armor gaps is to make every single tank ingame use a complete volumetric armor model. Third, barrel damage existing at all enables any vehicle with a weak gun to frontally cripple a machine which damn well should obliterate the weaker vehicle, exemplified by SPAAGs subjecting tanks to “Track-&-Barrel-Torture.” Finally, APHE postpen overperforms for all tank rounds, being leagues more deadly than solid shot of similar size.
Punishing SPAAG because they expose these game problems is effectively shooting the shark because the seal was being stupid.
And all gun SPAAG need to be relatively close to planes to easily hit and kill them, especially if the plane is maneuvering. If the SPAAG is cowering in their own spawn, it’s relatively easy for CAS to avoid that part of the map where the SPAAG are all sitting. Thus the frontline tanks still get bombed, and some of them still leap onto the forums to complain how supposedly OP CAS is.
We have waited. And waited. And waited. And waited. And waited some more for average players to “use SPAAG correctly.” They aren’t going to move them outside their own spawns if they cannot engage tanks, it is as simple as that. Because aircraft are currently relatively SP-expensive “killstreak powerups,” there will always be more tanks on a battlefield than CAS, which means its highly likely that any SPAAG daring to move beyond their spawn will encounter tanks.
What is more important to you? Solving the CAS problems or “SPAAG Puritanism”? Choose one.
I also find it really strange how we have every class of vehicle doing things it was not designed to do well, in every game mode no less, yet we single out SPAAG tankbusting why exactly?
And how many of those cases were the enemy teams without any CAP to defend their skies, or the CAP that were present proceeded to have no brain cells on how to engage a Yak-9K (such as going headon with it or being distracted by another friendly plane)?
Because in my experiences, when enemy teams have fighters up, the Yak-9K is easily swatted down.
The plane can see more of the battlefield than the tank destroyer can, so being able to find more targets of opportunity is expected in a given time frame.
That isn’t “retarded OP” - that’s enemy teams being stupid and not intercepting the Yak-9K quickly enough. No different in concept to dealing with a hard flanker or two locking down one (or the only) spawn because nobody went that way initially and racking up a bunch of kills.
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I recently got one ground kill in an ISU-122S, a plane kill with an SPAA and then 4 ground and 2 air kills with the Yak-9UT till the match ended.
The Yak-9K has pretty bad flight performance at 5.0 while the Yak-9UT still outperforms any ground attack aircraft, while still being able to destroy any ground target.
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But, against a lot of purebred fighters common at 5.7, even the Yak-9UT is inferior. Also since it has a heavier engine than the 9K, it is in many ways substantially less agile and is a bit more prone to pancaking when diving to try killing stuff.
That is why it is so easy to outmaneuver many planes with it while dealing with ground targets, right
The only thing that might give You a hard time are spits, nothing else
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No, I disagree. It is swatted out of the sky like a fly the second something prioritizes it. It might be a menace monster against heavy tanks but a U-SH, J21, F6F, or M16 MGMC will eat it alive
Of course for CAS abusers a plane like this never are op is just players fault.
His fantasy flight model is not players fault.
His op post pen damage is not players fault.
His completely lack of recoil is not players fault.
His insane low BR is not player fault.
Still enough good for deal with not issue planes of 5.7 even higher.
Is a menace against everything because is a proganda with wings.
M16 spaa a meneace for Yak-9K … really ?? ahhahahaa.
Well, thats just player skill issue when there are no markers around.
The Yak-9K isn’t even good at 4.0.
If you are actively looking to clear the sky the Yak-9K isn’t a threat to any 5.0 fighter.
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I mean, it’s still a Yak, just a significantly heavier one. It has all the same weaknesses of other Yak-9s - abysmal high-speed performance, no useful flaps due to exceedingly low rip speed almost as bad as those on Spits, the guns being well-optimized for ground attack means they precisely aren’t all that great at killing planes unless the enemy pilots are really stupid, and the Yak-9K lacks much in the way of armor so if it gets tapped even a little its maneuverability just dies right then and there in my experience.
Spitfires, Zeroes, G.55s, and other highly-maneuverable planes all give it trouble. Planes with great controllability in dives can and will toy with Yak-9Ks endlessly so long as they don’t turn with it.
Just because someone uses CAS does not make them an “abuser” of it.
Yakovlevs are far from the only planes with fantasy flight models. Lavochkins, I-185s, Bf-109s, Zeroes, and several others come to mind with overly generous FM changes over the years.
I-185s used to be just awful, with great climb and acceleration, but at the time the nasty combination of extreme control stiffening past 600kph, rudder bricking ensuring you couldn’t hope to aim at anything not a bomber above that speed, guns which at the time were some of the most unreliable ingame, and finally a BR so high on the M-71 model that you routinely fought against things which could maintain 600kph in level flight. Over the years, the I-185s saw BR drops, removal of rudder bricking, more generous high-speed controllability, and most recently ShVAKs turning into buzzsaws that would make .50cals in 1.69 blush.
Bf-109s are another example - when I joined they were fast-climbing but also rather bricky. Especially the G-6/10/14 and K-4. Like the 185s the late 109s had similar high-speed compressibility issues but were always fighting against stuff pretty much built to exploit that. Then one day that compressibility just…vanished, even though on paper every stat of the planes remained functionally identical.
Zeroes in many cases (A6M5s especially) have always had fantasy FMs which never had proper control stiffening in dives, not unlike Yakovlevs, Lavochkins, or I-185s. Thus they can dive at high speeds which they were reinforced specifically for, but also maneuver damn near as well as at low speeds (better in a high speed dive than even the Reppu which was supposed to be better than the Reisens in every respect - ingame its not, hence the A6M5 Otsu and A7M2 have the same BR of 5.3).
I could list many other examples if necessary.
Depending on who is being shot at, it might actually be the fault of the person being shot at.
When the APHE postpen nerf was first proposed and stated to be tested on the Dev Server, more than three-quarters of comments were about “but what about MUH JUMBO??? wat i do if i can’t cupola tigor or is-2?” Thus given that America is one of the popular nations often fighting Russia, its actually somewhat likely a good chunk of the complaining about the Yak-9K is coming from the very people who shot down the one thing that would have ensured the Yak-9K never became this effective in the first place. Just like with 35mm Oerlikon SPAAGs, they did it to themselves, and they deserve zero sympathy.
That is definitely a fantasy FM moment, but it is a key feature making cannon CAS with the Yak-9K actually enjoyable. The gun actually shoots where you aim it, god forbid!
I would rather see every cannon CAS receive the same recoilless treatment than take it away from the Yaks. Because if all the other fantasy FMs are clearly going nowhere, we may as well ensure more of the game’s planes are actually fun to use - there is NOTHING “fun” about your gun missing your targets via dumb RNG even after you set up your passes perfectly.
The Hs-129B-2 with its 30mm MK103 gunpod shotguns all over the place unless you fire maybe one bullet per second…on an autocannon designed to shoot much more than that. Same with the heavier Bf-110C with the MK101. Same with the Horten 229, which has been clobbered upside the head so many times it’s beyond ridiculous. Same with really large planes that you’d think would ensure minimal recoil like the PBJ-1H, XA-38, and P.108A. And of course the Hs-129B-3 deserves mentioning too.
Yet the vast majority of players do not bother using all other cannon CAS because it does not shoot straight, meaning that even if they manage to compensate for the platforms being usually bricks poorly capable of defending themselves, their platform can just decide “no, not today” and refuse to work by not shooting where you aim it. At that point why even bother including planes like that in the game at all?
Prior to the addition of the APHE round, the Yak-9K was not used much or used as a bomber-killing meme. Just like all the other cannon CAS - why do you want more cases like that?
The Yak-9K has already gone up an entire BR from 4.0 to 5.0, to where it now overlaps in matchmaker with its cousin the Yak-9UT, which trades some maneuverability for a better engine and secondary guns good for air-to-air, at the cost of being a bit brickier and fighting much nastier opposition.
The Yak’s problem is not really the Yak itself, it is the implementation of CAS in general and the currently lackluster state of its counters. Same with just about every other “problem” CAS, with the only exceptions being stuff like current helicopter LDIRCM making those immortal to all SAMs.
If the Bf-109K flies like an idiot, of course the Yak will kill it. Like I said earlier, its still a Yak.
All SPAAGs are at least more capable of intercepting a Yak than they are [insert 1000lb burger truck of choice] due to the nature of its attack profile. Yaks and other cannon CAS cannot really come in from the side of tanks and do much, instead they must loop vertically high over the map to go through thin roof armor. This means they cannot possibly hide from SPAAG, and near the top of said loops when they’re slowest, many SPAAG can get lead rather straightforwardly. Even one glancing hit to a wing is enough to completely kill the Yak’s maneuverability in my experience.
There is literally a law in the Russian Federation “you cannot make the Russian military look bad,” but they tend to over-correct and make them too good when trying to avoid running afoul of this law. Wargaming does the same thing in their titles.
If you did that the BI-2 would be unable to do anything really. The sheer jump in flight speeds seen from 7.0-9.0, plus the BI-2’s straight wings and very bad compressibility would ensure it’s utterly worthless.
Or drop the HSTV-L and Bagel to match the 2S38?
Coastal is hypercompressed by fighting DDs which wipe the floor with most of them. We can’t solve the SKR (or other frigate problem) without an actual split queue. People think tanks vs aircraft are bad, well at least the planes can run away if they aren’t able to do much. Coastal boats are outperformed in literally every possible metric by even reserve destroyers.
Low tiers are just as overcompressed as high tiers, but most people don’t recognize it due to how fast they speed on through biplane tiers.
You hate the Yak so much that you have lost the ability to think, and just want it to be useless. You would see it first uptiered, then the gun itself nerfed repeatedly, thereby completely fucking over any other plane happening to use the same gun like the Su-8, TIS-MA, and Tu-1, and proceed to say “i don’t care” when someone else in the future rightfully complains about the Yak still being really high in BR years later with none of the capability that put it there. Just like what happened with the Horten 229 and R2Y2s.
If you hate CAS so much, why not call for SPAAG (re)buffs instead of calling to nerf [insert designated “problem” plane]? No matter how many your complaining causes to be nerfed, people will always congregate around another one and you’ll resume complaining anew. Restoratively buffing SPAAGs on the other hand, would give you a counter to both the existing Yak “problem” and also any future spammed plane, because the same cannon SPAAG can easily smack down every last one of them whatever they are.
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MO-4 is 1.0 when it has 2 45 mm guns 2 12.7s and 64 82 mm rockets.
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We were talking about UT.
I find the meat chopper quite capable of taking down Yaks. And one that has a big ass cannon in its nose is less maneuverable and as such, is easier to kill
Those who defend the BI have skill issues, it’s an extremely maneuverable vehicle with two cannons of 20mm, and with its BR of 6.7, it is extremely OP… All competent players have admitted that BI is a cancer, even many YouTubers who play Warthunder. This Russian vehicle can be defined like this: “Russia gets a Me 163 at 6.7 while the real Me 163 fights Korean War jets at 8.0”
The 2S38 is a vehicle that works very well even at BR 11.3. The problem is that 2S38 players don’t like balanced combat; they want, and literally, a vehicle pays to win. Anyone who buys 2S38 has zero talent in the game.
The SKR-7 is OP, and anyone who tells you otherwise is most likely someone who knows full well it’s OP and wants to keep it that way. If you’re far enough away, it’s rockets will obliterate you, while if you’re closer, say goodbye to your guns while it takes the rest of you out. And it feels way tankier than something like that should be. It can confidently engage both light cruisers and aircraft, and it has incredible accuracy, being able to shoot down aircraft from 4km away with its cannons. And it seems much more armored than something like this should be. Honestly, this thing is one of the big reasons why people don’t persevere with naval. Not exactly fun to jump in and get bitchslapped by some clubber in this OP thing. Also, please explain why the Freccia P-493 is still at 4.7 BR while the SKR-7, which surpasses it in damage, defense, and survivability, is still at 4.3 BR? It makes no sense for the SKR-7 to be at a lower BR than the Freccia P-493.
The Yak-1 has a 20mm cannon, which is why it shouldn’t be at BR 2.3 but at BR 2.7… If the Yak-1 were Italian, they would have put it at BR 3.0 since Italian players would have been able to use it better than Russian players.
The issue is not that I dislike these vehicles, but rather that it is absurd that they have such low BRs when all other nations do not have anything similar… The only ones who defend these vehicles I mentioned are players who lack skill and need their OP vehicle to win the match. You can deny all you want the Russian bias in this game is real
EDIT: Fixed typo