Yea. I when the Yak-9 used HVAP (I can tell what it looked like) at least they needed to aim to kill maybe 3 crew? But now they shoot brain-dead anywhere on roof and tank go boom!
3 Likes
Uhh…I am 13 actually. And what does that have to do with this converstaion?
Yeah, I mean after I played British (and some US) tanks I got really better in aim since Germany teaches you to shoot turret and hope boom.
1 Like
Solid shot has the potential to get kills quicker if you know and can hit ammo locations due to the higher penetration. An alternative that I would be massively open to is to buff pretty much all solid shot except french 100 and 120mm. In most cases though I prefer aphe due to the better damage
Getting through armour is a non-issue if you get a flank though.
APHE instakills unless it’s a very anemic round (mostly only rank 2 tanks), while solid shot can take at least 2 shots to kill if you don’t hit ammo rack, sometimes more because spalling is too narrow at your angle of impact or you get this outcome:
Direct hit to pelvis, shell had enough mass and velocity to go on and knock the engine block out. Crewman just turned red. Far I remember, given the angle, I couldn’t aim for the bustle with the ammo due to cover and went for a safer body shot instead with less angles.
If I was in a APHE tank, it’d have been an instakill.
(like compare the angle of impact on the video vs this:
)
4 Likes
Yeah, and that’s called spalling. When soild shots don’t pen, they still make a bump on the armor which makes frags that can kill the crew with non-pen. Should be added to buff soild rounds since they are so crap rn.
That’s how King tigers got killed by IS-1/2s
If you don’t hit the ammorack with solid shot you should learn to aim. Unless you were going for crew kills. I don’t see the issue here except that solid shot sometimes doesn’t do the damage you expect. Which is, once again, a solid shot issue and NOT an aphe issue.
There’s angles and positions the ammo rack cannot be hit side on.
Angles and positions that APHE will always penetrate from, so the argument that APHE takes more skill due to having to know where to hit is moot.
And especially in case if we go back to topic with the yak-9.
A 45/70/90 degree top-down dive and strafe will always penetrate. Even crazy armored turrets have no chance at a proper dive angle (which you want to use by default to minimize time spent in SPAA cone).
2 Likes
Such as what positions and angles on what tanks using what round? AP keeps the penetrator for a good distance inside the tank so you should be able to hit ammo or ko crew easily. I understand that you are really new to the game and are not good yet but you can’t expect to just shoot something and get a kill.
Turret bustle with ammo rack hidden behind cover (tank is only showing the first half of its hull/turret. If there’s ammo, it’s low and behind tracks that lead to shell shatter on APDS but not on APHE).
Also again, yak-9.
You come in from a 70 degree angle and click on the turret with APHE: it penetrates and kills turret crew and maybe even the driver if the layout is tight enough.
You come in from a 70 degree angle and click on the turret with HVAP: it penetrates and maybe kills 1 crewman unless you hit the ammo.
Duck also has APHE.
Duck also falls out of the sky with or without instructor.
Yak-9K remains competitive against most aircraft (bf109s, mustangs, corsairs, hellcats), especially if the person using it knows to transition from instructor to instructor-less modes or is able to force one-circle/scissor fights due to yak roll rates being pretty good.
120 deg/s without rudder, 180 deg/s using proverse roll from rudder (easy to stall into a snap-roll and depart flight, but an experienced pilot can manage that) Using full-real controls, starting from knife-edge to knife-edge as well as I can. 2km altitude, 350 km/h start
Now comparing against F6F-5 (one of the best one circle fighters at its BR range, both 30min fuel, 350 km/h IAS at start (not-ideal, this thing wants to be 450-550 km/h to do its magic):
80 deg/s without, 120 deg/s with rudder. Now, the hellcat does also have amazing instanteous turn that contributes to its one-circle prowess, but we’ll compare that later.
Now comparing against F4U-4 (5.3 in instructorless gamemodes, 4.3 in GRB. also 450 km/h because this thing hit 450 without trying and slowing it down to 350 was annoying and it just went back to 450 while rolling):
I didn’t see a difference of rudder kick vs no-rudder roll rate beyond a ~10-20 deg/s. ~110 to 120.
Now clipped wing spit (Mk XVI, back to 350 km/h):
I didn’t manage to test rudderkicks as the plane departs flight with my rudder controls if I do that. 120 deg/s without rudder. I imagine rudderkicks would match yak-9k
Now Bf109F4:
Rudderless: 80 deg/s, rudder: 120 deg/s (but very violent and requires experience).
Now on instantenous turn and turn radius are not something I know how to test and record in a way that’s actually consistent and rigorous - meaning, I’ve no idea how to use WTRTI to make an E_M diagram. Just recording instantenous turn against time would provide false info. As an added complication, I suck at coordinating turns in the spitfire so I’d be way underselling its performance (a non-issue with roll rate given even departed flight provides good data). I thought to check catwerfer’s data, even if it’s hindered by instructor limits, but he didn’t test yak-9k in particular. I concede that roll rate alone does not make an excellent one-circle fighter, turn radius also matters just as much. On flipside, roll rate benefits all aspects of dogfighting because even in a rate fight, you can use superior roll rate to manage your curves to force better positions even if you rate worse.
But for hilarity, here’s the duck’s roll rate:
60 deg without rudder, 80 deg with rudder
2 Likes
Yak9k is no doubt absolutely broken and probably should have it’s br adjusted (not 6.0, that’s ridiculous) or aphe removed.
However if you’re wanting to cripple its flight performance and have the recoil cause structural damage because it’s more realistic, then we should also have features such as 90% of king tigers break down after 50m and can’t be repaired… because realism is best right?
5 Likes
How is the FM of the yak 9s any better than the competition? Spitfires basically outperform them at every br… not sure how the FM of the yak 9ut comes even close to the LF mk9… or the yak 9p’s fm with the the mk 5c, seafire mk3 or bf 109 G2… or the 3.0s yak 9s with the mk2a.
The yaks with an actual good FM are the yak 3s.
1 Like
Ye. I mean AP solids are quite dangerous to use in closer ranges since if the ammo does go boom then you might also get killed by the exploding enemy, since most of the time it’s not a crew kill unlike APHE. TBH, I like APCBC better since they are more like a solid shot that thinks it’s a APHE round.
IDK what FM is, but to be honest the YaK-9 does way better than the G2, since the Yak-9 has a better turn rate and a UFO flight model. The Spitfires probably can kill Yaks but it’s unlikely that there is one in GRB, since it’s half Stukas and half Yak’s in low tier.
You can just outclimb them with the g2, FM isnt only turn rate, and btw you can outrate the 9p, it is literally the worse yak 9 at turning.
LOL. Then what about limited fuel? And what about mud? I mean, yeah, I guess it’s too harsh on the Yak-9 to cause DMG, but I think the recoil should eat up the speed/maneuverability, since it’s a russian UFO that uses laser beams to hunt down tigers.
I went over this in another thread, but the Hs 129 has incredibly poor flight performance, and the P-39/P-63 cannon has low velocity, much less penetration, and is solid shot. The 9K is the ONLY single engine fighter with a relatively large, accurate cannon with APHE.
3 Likes
Yak-9K retains its CAS potential without impacting its flight performance. It can use its excellent roll-rate to force advantageous positions or force overshoots, defeat its opponent then go right back to CASing.
Now let’s take one of the best CAS platforms, the F4U-4.
Load her up with bombs and HVAR. Suddenly, she goes from an amazing dogfighter to something awfully mediocre. For it to regain its capabilities, it must ditch its payload (and thus be restricted to strafing with .50 cals) or fight at a serious disadvantage.
Consider how much difference taking 15 minute vs 30 minute fuel makes (from completely empty to 100%, F4U-4 has 636 kg fuel). Bombs and HVARs are heavier than that (1252 kg for 4 HVar, 2 1 ton bombs). The plane as a whole, dry and clean, comes up at 4697. Its CAS-set up almost makes up 1/4 or 1/5 of its mass depending on fuel load.
The Yak-9K has optimal CAS loadout even at its lightest and at its heaviest alike.
And also, rate isn’t the only thing for dogfighting. Roll rate also exists - see my above post comparing roll rate between F4U-4, Bf109F4, MkXIV, F6F-5 (graphs says -3, idk why) and Yak-9K. All aircraft are in clean configuration, 30 minute fuel. Of them, only the Yak-9K retains full CAS capability at that configuration and it has the best roll rate out of all.
Climb/SEP definitely matters, but …
It’s pretty competetive too.
Especially if we again consider that its CAS loadout is same as A2A loadout, while everything else must add hundreds of kgs of excess mass to achieve similar outcomes
1 Like
Im anwering to his claims where he claims that all yak 9s should have their br review becuase they FM is “exellent”. i wasnt just talking just about the 9k but all of the others, sure the 9k should probably go up in GRB but this is not the case for all yak9s.