I have a hard time believing that you get regularly “pub stomped” in MBT/Heavy tank by a tin can with 66mm of pen
if it was so easy they would’ve done it by now wouldn’t they?
I’m not a ‘heavy tank driver’ ? I literally just said i was struggling against it in paper things lol.
But XM800T is itself a pest. And when one team’s micro-goblins curbstomps the other teams one, all that means is one team is overrun with pests and the other’s is not.
Like i said, Idk if XM800T needs to go up, because it doesn’t have the pen of some other autocannon lights to deal with heavier targets, but i think it’s equally fair to say it’s a fairly dominant cap contester at it’s current place.
1 Like
Apollo’s just taking it extremely personally for some reason, feels odd to be chatting with this fella
Yeees true, but only really dangerous to other “pests”, as it should be. If the thing can’t deal with MBTs it should be able to counter enemy lights at least.
I hope we can agree that uptiering XM800T until it no longer meets light tanks isn’t a viable solution
Ad hominems now?
you say that as if gaijin normally decompresses frequently
I can tell which answer you pick in the trolley problem
Well, all i’d alter on that point is that whilst yes, it’s especially dangerous against other pests - It’s also incredibly dangerous for all the paper’s / open tops just as other pests are. Very frustrating to fight against in all the SPH’s at this BR range.
Yeah, it’s difficult to come to any sort of ‘right’ decision when the BR’s are so compressed, and when dealing with such specialized vehicles. I think a lot of the recoilless HEAT goblins fall into this category too, where they feel incredibly unfair to play against in certain vehicles, but uptiering them so far that they are ineffective would also be unfair to themselves. There’s so little breathing room anywhere.
I don’t know how to play this thing at all, the stock grind was horrible lol my current kdr in it is 0.8, while Fox is 2.3 and earned two nuclear strikes. Still trying to figure out what I did wrong.
the normal AP round has basically 0 angle pen (its hvap which is basically apcr in game) so it shatters constantly on everything and does practically nothing, I had a similar experience but its quite fun, reminds me of the old R3 t20.
the easiest thing to do is wide flank and eliminate competition (enemy light tanks) while hiding from anything you can’t kill and scouting. my friend got a nuke in the thing while running away from an IS-3 for a whole game, was very funny to watch
Valid point, especially since there’s seemingly more SPHs added every update and their representation in matches increases.
I must admit I haven’t played the XM800T in a while so this is a change I didn’t consider.
I too hope that Gaijin will decompress more, especially the BRs 6.7 to 8.7 it’s quite awful situation for balancing, there’s too many vehicles that either stomp or get stomped depending on downtier or uptier. I wouldn’t hold my breath though they’re really taking their time about it.
The XM800T could very reasonably go higher in BR, but I think it would have to come with some changes that mitigate it’s poor anti-tank capability or otherwise increase utility.
-
Revise APDS formula, 20mm DM63 should penetrate 70mm at 1000m
-
Add a new gameplay mechanic where commander can open a hatch and fire a handheld anti-tank weapon. In this case M72 LAW, this weapon was part of US scout armament at the time. Penetration ~300mm, low velocity and range, can maybe carry 2 or 3 pieces. Adds anti-tank
capability to justify higher BR. I’m actually contemplating writing a suggestion post for this so it could be added to more vehicles where needed. Obviously it would not be stabilized and vehicle would have to be slow or stationary to use. -
Add handheld thermal imager mechanic, increases scouting utility since XM800T lacks integrated thermal. Can also be added to other vehicles.
Revise APDS formula, 20mm DM63 should penetrate 70mm at 1000m
rip to SUB-I-II, weisel 1a4, and amx10p br if that happens
also what is the source for the penetration diagram in that post
To tell the truth, I don’t know. OP in that topic posted it and I’ve tried to reverse image search but haven’t managed to find it’s origin yet.
I believe there’s some truth in it, since the other source OP posted shows DM43 APCR able to penetrate 62-75mm RHA at 100m (rear of T-62 turret). It then stands to reason that DM63 APDS would penetrate more. Unfortunately, official sources on DM63 are unobtainium.
Also recall that 20mm PzGr. 40 HVAP/APCR used to have 64mm pen back in the days when historical documents were used. After Gaijin adopted the formula penetration dropped to 48mm.
There is reason to believe these 20mm HVAP and APDS is underperforming.
Also, I wouldn’t worry about the SUB. Formula changes would likely impact both DM43 and DM63 alike, so a buffed DM43 could be the new top ammo for these low-BR vehicles.
there may be some truth to it, but personally I think for a video game using a formula offers more consistency between different vehicles making balance easier (in theory) so I prefer the formula
used to have 64mm pen back in the days
don’t remember this I’m pretty sure it was 54mm actually, I’ve had the R3 T20 for a long time,
penetration dropped to 48mm.
57mm*, I see the error, you’re talking about the wirbelwind 20mm, im talking about the 20mm cannon on the R3 t20, XM800t, weisel, marder 1, luchs a2, sub-i-ii, amx10p, (also the commander gun on the leopard 2k and kpz70, as well as some of the french tanks) yes the wirbelwind did used to have 64mm of pen, was very annoying
Also, I wouldn’t worry about the SUB
im not worried about it, I don’t see how dm43 would be better than the dm63 (which the SUB does get (at 5.3 (not sure why it’s at such a low BR relative to everything else that gets it)))
sorry if I seem antagonistic, I don’t mean to be, personally I do believe that light tanks are slightly overused in warthunder considering the map sizes (they would be more useful in a recon/actual light tank role on bigger maps) I don’t think a blanket nerf to low calibur APDS would be bad.
look up some of the lore about the slightly modern western 20mm guns in warthunder, they’re basically all the same, all distantly based off of some ww1 20mm anti aircraft gun, its fascinating, there may as well only be one 20mm in the world
XM800T also has a faster fire rate and bigger mag size over the RCV (P)
XD complaining about XM800T is wild.
Nothing to see here, just another “waahhh waaahhh America OP!!! wwaaah waaaahhh” post.
move it to 8.7, it only being .3 higher than the scimitar (which is worse in every single way other than pen) is extremely unfair and unbalanced
1 Like
the gepard (and all the copies) is at 8.3, with more pen with its AP round (not even the APDS) and 2 larger guns, it is not significantly different in terms of mobility, only being larger, it is also an AA, the XM800t should never be at the same BR as the gepard, let alone above it
also the scimitar isn’t worse than it in every way, the scimitar is far more capable of killing actual tanks
1 Like
You must be joking, right ?
XM has 33 HP/t, Gepard has 18 HP/t, they are worlds apart in terms of mobility.
on a small map you can only go so fast because of constantly stopping and starting (either because of killing people or whatever), sure the xm800t has more mobility but in practice it makes less difference than you’d think
either way the gepard more than makes up for the difference in mobility