XM800T needs a br change

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
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31

Valid point, especially since there’s seemingly more SPHs added every update and their representation in matches increases.

I must admit I haven’t played the XM800T in a while so this is a change I didn’t consider.

I too hope that Gaijin will decompress more, especially the BRs 6.7 to 8.7 it’s quite awful situation for balancing, there’s too many vehicles that either stomp or get stomped depending on downtier or uptier. I wouldn’t hold my breath though they’re really taking their time about it.

The XM800T could very reasonably go higher in BR, but I think it would have to come with some changes that mitigate it’s poor anti-tank capability or otherwise increase utility.

  1. Revise APDS formula, 20mm DM63 should penetrate 70mm at 1000m

  2. Add a new gameplay mechanic where commander can open a hatch and fire a handheld anti-tank weapon. In this case M72 LAW, this weapon was part of US scout armament at the time. Penetration ~300mm, low velocity and range, can maybe carry 2 or 3 pieces. Adds anti-tank
    capability to justify higher BR. I’m actually contemplating writing a suggestion post for this so it could be added to more vehicles where needed. Obviously it would not be stabilized and vehicle would have to be slow or stationary to use.

  3. Add handheld thermal imager mechanic, increases scouting utility since XM800T lacks integrated thermal. Can also be added to other vehicles.

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32

Revise APDS formula, 20mm DM63 should penetrate 70mm at 1000m

rip to SUB-I-II, weisel 1a4, and amx10p br if that happens

also what is the source for the penetration diagram in that post

33

To tell the truth, I don’t know. OP in that topic posted it and I’ve tried to reverse image search but haven’t managed to find it’s origin yet.

I believe there’s some truth in it, since the other source OP posted shows DM43 APCR able to penetrate 62-75mm RHA at 100m (rear of T-62 turret). It then stands to reason that DM63 APDS would penetrate more. Unfortunately, official sources on DM63 are unobtainium.

Also recall that 20mm PzGr. 40 HVAP/APCR used to have 64mm pen back in the days when historical documents were used. After Gaijin adopted the formula penetration dropped to 48mm.

There is reason to believe these 20mm HVAP and APDS is underperforming.

Also, I wouldn’t worry about the SUB. Formula changes would likely impact both DM43 and DM63 alike, so a buffed DM43 could be the new top ammo for these low-BR vehicles.

34

there may be some truth to it, but personally I think for a video game using a formula offers more consistency between different vehicles making balance easier (in theory) so I prefer the formula

used to have 64mm pen back in the days

don’t remember this I’m pretty sure it was 54mm actually, I’ve had the R3 T20 for a long time,

penetration dropped to 48mm.

57mm*, I see the error, you’re talking about the wirbelwind 20mm, im talking about the 20mm cannon on the R3 t20, XM800t, weisel, marder 1, luchs a2, sub-i-ii, amx10p, (also the commander gun on the leopard 2k and kpz70, as well as some of the french tanks) yes the wirbelwind did used to have 64mm of pen, was very annoying

Also, I wouldn’t worry about the SUB

im not worried about it, I don’t see how dm43 would be better than the dm63 (which the SUB does get (at 5.3 (not sure why it’s at such a low BR relative to everything else that gets it)))

sorry if I seem antagonistic, I don’t mean to be, personally I do believe that light tanks are slightly overused in warthunder considering the map sizes (they would be more useful in a recon/actual light tank role on bigger maps) I don’t think a blanket nerf to low calibur APDS would be bad.

look up some of the lore about the slightly modern western 20mm guns in warthunder, they’re basically all the same, all distantly based off of some ww1 20mm anti aircraft gun, its fascinating, there may as well only be one 20mm in the world

35

XM800T also has a faster fire rate and bigger mag size over the RCV (P)

36

XD complaining about XM800T is wild.

Nothing to see here, just another “waahhh waaahhh America OP!!! wwaaah waaaahhh” post.

37

move it to 8.7, it only being .3 higher than the scimitar (which is worse in every single way other than pen) is extremely unfair and unbalanced

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39

the gepard (and all the copies) is at 8.3, with more pen with its AP round (not even the APDS) and 2 larger guns, it is not significantly different in terms of mobility, only being larger, it is also an AA, the XM800t should never be at the same BR as the gepard, let alone above it

also the scimitar isn’t worse than it in every way, the scimitar is far more capable of killing actual tanks

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40

You must be joking, right ?
XM has 33 HP/t, Gepard has 18 HP/t, they are worlds apart in terms of mobility.

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41

on a small map you can only go so fast because of constantly stopping and starting (either because of killing people or whatever), sure the xm800t has more mobility but in practice it makes less difference than you’d think

either way the gepard more than makes up for the difference in mobility

42

I don’t agree with this.
XM800 has crazy mobility so it can get to the ambush spots first, getting easy shots on incoming enemy rushers in lights and side shots on mediums. You’re underestimating what 33 HP/t can do in that BR. It also has a nasty gun depression so you can exploit some rat spots where people simply don’t expect you to fire from.

2 Likes
43

Balancing high mobility, high damage output light vehicles has always been an a challenge for Gaijin.
Smaller maps inflates their efficacy. Put them in a field or a large map and watch as every tank, ATGM carrier just destroys these light tanks.

Put them in a 5x5 French vilage map where they can hide and peek and they are stupidly good.

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44

You’re underestimating

maybe I am, but either way I’ve mostly played light tanks and have had far worse experiences against the gepard than the XM800t

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45

Xm800T must go down to 7.0. Facing against tiger2s and Is3-4s is better for the game.

46

Pretty wild to see someone claim the Type 87 P is decent, let alone OP.

It’s a massive, clumsy box of a tank that struggles to turn and can’t reverse well. It’s massively tall too, so good luck hiding behind anything. The gun is utterly reliant on having flank shots on vulnerable enemies, something the 87 cannot guarantee due to it’s conspicous size and poor handling.

Also, something I haven’t seen mentioned here which seems relevant is the fact that the XM800T has substanially boosted RoF over standard 20mm autocannon users, at 1050 vs 800 RPM. This, plus the incredible gun handling, stabilizer and agile platform is what allows it to out-rat other rank tanks at the tier so consistently. Which is also why it’s at a much higher BR than all of them.

2 Likes
47

XM also doesn’t need to reload every 100 rounds unlike 87 and it has access to full APDS belt.
Meanwhile 87 has 3/4 APDS belt which means 25% of your ammo is useless.

In my opinion XM is more than 0.3 better than 87, as it practically has no downsides.

48

I think the gepard and all the marksman SPAAs should be higher too, radar shouldn’t be facing ww2 planes in GRB

2 Likes
49

I agree that they should be higher, but for other reasons

50

what are your reasons?

51

a violent hatred for the thing from a light tank perspective