ey man seekerheads for the r-27ea did exist (confirmed to exist at least), though they weren’t on an actual plane
9b1103 → r-27a and was tested on mig-29
9b1103m → r-27ea but program was cancelled before it was tested. The seekerheads were made though
Stats for both seekerheads:
the r-27ea seekerhead
r-27ea imo is fair game because seekerhead was at least made, and we already know how it would’ve performed
Again, by that logic, they should’ve modelled the E-100 with its right, not produced turret, because both 12.8 cm Pak 44 and 75 mm KwK37 cannons were, in theory, produced.
Anyway, its defending the indefensible. The more you dig in Gaijin’s contradictions, the worse it gets.
cuz 15a should not
Context clues, man. Im talking about the ER on the 27SM. It could still have a place even as a weapon solely on that aircraft, as it holds the range/speed advantage over the AMRAAM.
No, it doesn’t? They impact near the same time when fired at 40km or so and the R27ER does not hold a range advantage at all. You also can’t argue a fox1 is better or equal to a fox3. There is a hard limitation in being a fox1.
Why do Russians need an ARH when the Americans at the same tier would only have the Sparrow? That’s just unfair… especially if we give the MiGs the R-73.
if it gets it it should obviously be moved up to 13.0
You fail to account for the fact that 1. the SU-27SM does also have FOX3s 2. that most shots fired at 40km do not hit, either AMRAAM or R-27ER, due to the time that the enemy has to easily notch/chaff, 3. the R-27ER is noticably faster to hit at ranges where deadly engagements usually happen, usually around 15 miles, being 4 seconds faster at 15mi and 4. the datalink on the ER allows a pilot to shoot, defend a fox3, and then relock and guide the ER to its target, acting as a pseudo fox3.
That, however, is not the point of what I was saying. The R-27ER exists on the SU-27SM as an auxilary weapon to allow it to reach farther out, where R-77s are ineffective. The point of my post was to illustrate that it’s role should be as such. It was also to illustrate that it should not be at sparrow BRs, as it can reach out to ranges that the Sparrow cannot even reach, and if it can, the ER often arrives over 10 seconds quicker. Better the ER be a situational weapon on the SU-27SM than a sparrow bully at 1.0+ BR levels below where it should be.
I think the place of the 9-13 MiG-29 is better at 12.7 with R-73s and R-27R. 1980s iron-curtain MiG-29 is not represented in this game and I think that’s sad.
Not much of a solution here, tbh… The Su-27SM served as a platform to introduce the R-77, while the Su-27S was the first aircraft to historically field the R-27ER. The real ‘fix’ would’ve been to remove MiG-29 R-27ER and replace it with R-73 and everything is fine, but no.
Yeah, no.
12.7 with at most 6 of the best IRCCM missiles in the game? No. A worse BR change than the current F-15A/Js
Disagree on all points. For game balance’s sake the SU-27S should not have the ER. It also just makes more sense chronologically for the 90s SM to introduce the 90s R-27ER as well as the R-77. But game balance is the primary reason, as it would serve as a somewhat even opponent for the 15A at 13.0 instead of something that’s blatantly overpowered (trust me I have the SU-27S). Fox1 and Fox3 aircraft need to be seperated but that’s another conversation.
I’d argue the Magic 2 is 90% as good as the R-73, and it exists as far down as 11.0. At 11.7, the Mig21 Bison exists with 2 less R-73s than your average Mig-29 would have at 12.7. Gate IRCCM missiles are also just not that good, as if your enemy is at all aware of your presence, they will pre-flare and your missile will be junk, sometimes they’ll even do it without knowing you’re there. The R-73’s gate IRCCM is only really a guaranteed killer within a mile in the 60 degree rear aspect. It can be powerful, but not so powerful that 6 of them at 12.7 is unjustified, especially when the SU-27 exists right now just .3 BR higher with R-73 and R-27ET on top of that. We should not compensate the BR system for people being stupid and not knowing how to flare missiles.
I both agree and disagree with both of you two’s ( Sergeantpwn and Code_649) points.
R-73 IRCCM has not been very good lately, and their advantage is lessened compared to before. Them being on mediocre/poor 12.7 platform will arguably be less powerful than the F/A-18C early. IRCCM missiles also exist at lower BRs as well, and they aren’t considered OP. Remove the ERs and give the MiG-29s R-73s and keep them at 12.7.
The Su-27 should keep its R-27ERs, both because it used those missiles IRL, and it will provide more of a buffer between 4th gens with and without ARH missiles. I wouldn’t call it any better or worse than a plane like the F-4F ICE for example.
There are too many performance differences between the best non ARH, and worst ARH carrier for there to not have a hard cutoff.
“For game balance’s sake” it is already balanced? If you multipath you can evade the missile quite easily. Same if you notch, and while we’re on the subject of game balance I’d say the AIM-7M’s ability to keep tracking despite biting on chaff while the R-27ER can’t is an interesting but fair compromise.
The Su-27SM isn’t 90s, it was introduced in 2003…
Magic 2 is nowhere near as good as R-73. For one it’s outranged, by a lot. A higher top-speed yes, but pretty much every Magic 2 carrier (excluding Rafale, which shouldn’t even have Magic 2 to begin with) will never be fast enough for it to matter. Gate width IRCCM is the best kind of IRCCM there is in the game, the only way to use them is either in rear aspect or last second head-ons. Pertaining to the R-73 specifically, it cannot be flared from 2.3 km rear aspect minimum and is basically a free kill 1.3 km and under in a head-on.
Like I’ve said before, 6 R-73 is insane at 12.7. Trying to justify it with “Su-27 has them + others .3 BR higher” isn’t the counterargument you think it is. For one, placed at 12.7 means downtiers to 11.7 with 6 of those. Currently sitting at 13.3 means possible brackets of 12.3 seeing it, but most of the time (especially now with BR changes) it’ll be 12.7.
Also, cherry on top there: “We should not compensate the BR system for people being stupid and not knowing how to flare missiles”. I can easily say the same about people who don’t know how to evade R-27ER
Sure, why would you carry R27ER?
Sure, less likely to hit a R27ER though as you have to maintain lock to impact or at the very least update the lock in the correct moments which still requires more effort than a fox3.
Than an AMRAAM? Sure! The amraam user also does not have to keep holding the lock… he can just get it within 16km pitbull then notch you until you die.
I REALLY want to see you try to do this in sim. This is an air RB tactic. Russian avionics are garbage at doing this in sim with the loss in awareness sim brings.
1 r27er and a r77 vs a single aim120
I was not aware we were talking about sim here… most people who play this game play RB.
Longer range. My comment about the ER also being an auxilary missile which would not be the foremost system on its platform also applies.
It’s not that hard to do, you can fire before they do, notch their missile, and then turn back in time to guide the ER in for the kill. Speaking on ARB. In sim, I would not use the ER.
I’ll give this one partially to you, but the disparity in capability between the R-27ER and the Sparrow means that even a good player has to really fight uphill to beat the R-27ER in an aircraft which only carries sparrows.
The real problem here is BR compression… we can all agree on that, I hope. But you also must consider that an 11.7 could only face at most 4 SU-27s in a full uptier. Much likely only one or two once you account for the fact that other 12.7s exist. Any aircraft is prone to being outnumbered. But I agree with you for the most part here and I think the real solution is more upwards decompression (15.3 at least) to make some space for planes like this to exist.
At the ranges where gate IRCCM is effective (1 mile and below), the R-73’s increased range doesn’t really matter. That’s why I personally don’t think the capability difference is that large. Any player with their head halfway screwed on knows to be on the lookout for missiles coming from all directions. Sure, the odd one will sometimes get you, but that’s life, and it can happen with other stuff too. Crux of my point being that for an aware player, gate IRCCM is not that hard to decoy.
Bottom line. I think the real solution to this problem is BR decompression. The 1980s BR bracket is choked by the existence of Fox3s right above it and planes that are comparatively trash right below it. They need to create this seperation somehow so we can have the Aim-7/R-27R duels between 80s F-15s and Su-27s. The air strategy during 80s in Europe is a really interesting period, and I’d love to see it somewhat represented in game. Right now it just seems like the 80s planes either get put in stomp sessions with late 70s Phantoms/Floggers or are the victims of stomp sessions from 90s Fox3 carriers.
If you’re historically inclined, this is a good watch. Part of why I love this era so much is stories from dad/grandparents of when their family was stationed at Bitburg in the 80s. They speak highly of the place. The world was at a fever pitch and it bred excellence in air wings across Germany. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjC3wEKEZeE&pp=ygUbYml0YnVyZyBhaXJiYXNlIGRvY3VtZW50YXJ5
All good points, however I’m speaking from the Simulator Battles POV, not Realistic Battles.
this is not how simulator battles work
