Why is the Su-27 not going down to 13.0 but the F-15A/J can to 12.7?

[Raymondjm5-live]

1 r27er and a r77 vs a single aim120

[Sergeantpwn]

@Normandy_Corsair

This is an air RB tactic. Russian avionics are garbage at doing this in sim with the loss in awareness sim brings.

I was not aware we were talking about sim here… most people who play this game play RB.

@Normandy_Corsair

Sure, why would you carry R27ER?

Longer range. My comment about the ER also being an auxilary missile which would not be the foremost system on its platform also applies.

@Normandy_Corsair

Sure, less likely to hit a R27ER though as you have to maintain lock to impact or at the very least update the lock in the correct moments which still requires more effort than a fox3.

Sergeantpwn:

It’s not that hard to do, you can fire before they do, notch their missile, and then turn back in time to guide the ER in for the kill. Speaking on ARB. In sim, I would not use the ER.

[Sergeantpwn]

@Code_649

Also, cherry on top there: “We should not compensate the BR system for people being stupid and not knowing how to flare missiles”. I can easily say the same about people who don’t know how to evade R-27ER

I’ll give this one partially to you, but the disparity in capability between the R-27ER and the Sparrow means that even a good player has to really fight uphill to beat the R-27ER in an aircraft which only carries sparrows.

@Code_649

For one, placed at 12.7 means downtiers to 11.7 with 6 of those. Currently sitting at 13.3 means possible brackets of 12.3 seeing it, but most of the time (especially now with BR changes) it’ll be 12.7.

The real problem here is BR compression… we can all agree on that, I hope. But you also must consider that an 11.7 could only face at most 4 SU-27s in a full uptier. Much likely only one or two once you account for the fact that other 12.7s exist. Any aircraft is prone to being outnumbered. But I agree with you for the most part here and I think the real solution is more upwards decompression (15.3 at least) to make some space for planes like this to exist.

@Code_649

Magic 2 is nowhere near as good as R-73. For one it’s outranged, by a lot. A higher top-speed yes, but pretty much every Magic 2 carrier (excluding Rafale, which shouldn’t even have Magic 2 to begin with) will never be fast enough for it to matter. Gate width IRCCM is the best kind of IRCCM there is in the game, the only way to use them is either in rear aspect or last second head-ons. Pertaining to the R-73 specifically, it cannot be flared from 2.3 km rear aspect minimum and is basically a free kill 1.3 km and under in a head-on.

At the ranges where gate IRCCM is effective (1 mile and below), the R-73’s increased range doesn’t really matter. That’s why I personally don’t think the capability difference is that large. Any player with their head halfway screwed on knows to be on the lookout for missiles coming from all directions. Sure, the odd one will sometimes get you, but that’s life, and it can happen with other stuff too. Crux of my point being that for an aware player, gate IRCCM is not that hard to decoy.

Bottom line. I think the real solution to this problem is BR decompression. The 1980s BR bracket is choked by the existence of Fox3s right above it and planes that are comparatively trash right below it. They need to create this seperation somehow so we can have the Aim-7/R-27R duels between 80s F-15s and Su-27s. The air strategy during 80s in Europe is a really interesting period, and I’d love to see it somewhat represented in game. Right now it just seems like the 80s planes either get put in stomp sessions with late 70s Phantoms/Floggers or are the victims of stomp sessions from 90s Fox3 carriers.

If you’re historically inclined, this is a good watch. Part of why I love this era so much is stories from dad/grandparents of when their family was stationed at Bitburg in the 80s. They speak highly of the place. The world was at a fever pitch and it bred excellence in air wings across Germany. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjC3wEKEZeE&pp=ygUbYml0YnVyZyBhaXJiYXNlIGRvY3VtZW50YXJ5

[Code_649]

All good points, however I’m speaking from the Simulator Battles POV, not Realistic Battles. 🫩

[ron_23]

@Sergeantpwn

But you also must consider that an 11.7 could only face at most 4 SU-27s in a full uptier.

this is not how simulator battles work

[Raymondjm5-live]

It would be nice to see more historical match ups, instead of this stupid br system.

[kizvy]

historical matchups would kill the mode.
imagine f-15 vs mig 21 bis

[ron_23]

iamgine early p-51 vs Me-262

[Raymondjm5-live]

Russia’s arsenal during the gulf war was mainly mig 21bis?

[Raymondjm5-live]

Does the game even have a designated Iran or Iraq tree?

[Sergeantpwn]

Historical to a point is my whole idea. What about F-15 vs MiG-29 or Su-27?

[kizvy]

That wouldn’t be too bad, though Russia will always be behind in terms of tech (f-15a/c msip with AMRAAMs would be facing early su-27 with r-27r/ers) until after the mid 2000s when the Russians finally put fox 3s on their flankers.

Not to mention how much worse the Russian radars and rwr are until again, the mid 2000s.
I think if it was a 2000s match up or later it would be fine to have semi historical match ups, before then nato/America just kinda stomps

[ron_23]

what econmic collapse does to a military

[Sergeantpwn]

It wouldn’t be ERs vs AIM-120s though, not with the F-15A. There was an F-15A “MSIP I” program that would have given F-15As similar capabilities to F-15C MSIP IIs, but it was abandoned in favor of just upgrading existing Cs. The F-15A airframes that could carry AMRAAMs were those that were upgraded to F-15C standard, save for the ability to carry CFTs.

In short - with regard to the F-15A/early Su-27 matchup, there is no involvement of the AIM-120. It would be Aim-7M vs R-27R.

[GitGood]

Gotta love the fact that people demand Fox-1 parity, while completely ignoring radar and sensors parity that never existed in the first place.

[noister]

@kizvy

That wouldn’t be too bad, though Russia will always be behind in terms of tech (f-15a/c msip with AMRAAMs would be facing early su-27 with r-27r/ers) until after the mid 2000s when the Russians finally put fox 3s on their flankers.

Not to mention how much worse the Russian radars and rwr are until again, the mid 2000s.
I think if it was a 2000s match up or later it would be fine to have semi historical match ups, before then nato/America just kinda stomps

Only if mig31m came in service…

[Code_649]

Yak-141: sneezes Бля