Before you give the obvious answer- on some level, I get it. The other IR-slinging F-16s are 12.3 with non-IRCCM missiles, so this thing with Magic 2s and AIM-9Ms should be a higher BR. I get it.
But also. 12.7 with zero radar missiles is… an experience.
You’re pretty regularly uptiered to 13.3/13.7 where you’re basically food for the other team. You have no ability to pressure or counterfire on people at range since all your missiles are only effective within ~4km (or more if you’re using AIM-9Ms from top-down). Closing within that 4km in the first place is a chore; if you multipath then half the other team focuses you down, if you go mid- or high-alt then your 60 CMs isn’t going to do much against the onslaught of Fox-3s rapidly approaching your location. And before anyone mentions the F-16A ADF and how it has less countermeasures, or the F-16A MLU and how it has the same amount of countermeasures, and how those are both a higher BR- those work because they have ARH missiles. They can pressure and counterfire on people and get them to go away, for lack of a better term. With this thing your only options are to either multipath or endlessly notch, and to that end you’re completely at the mercy of the competency (and pettiness) of the other team.
Someone I once talked to described this thing as a support fighter; you’re not gonna get much done with it on your own. That saddens me because if it was placed better, or if high tier was less compressed, it could be a really fun plane; a great dogfighter with great close-range missiles that can easily hold its own when it’s not being pressured by endless hordes of radar missiles.
So to that end I have to ask a somewhat rhetorical question: why is this thing at 12.7? Even a slight BR shift down to 12.3 would pretty radically alter the environment the plane fights in and make it a lot more comfortable. There’s even some precedent for it- the Mirage 2000 C-S5 got moved down to 12.3, and the Mirage 2000 C-S4 is at 12.3 as well. The way I see it, the French squadron F-16 could easily also go down to 12.3 without radically altering the matchmaker, especially since even playing as an 11.3 plane in a full uptier, you’d only see a maximum of four 12.3 planes on the other team.
Unfortunately Gaijin’s not keen on fixing BR compression anytime soon. So, fine, I’ll play on their playing field. Screw it, we’ll just compress and compress and keep compressing until we can’t compress anymore, and then compress some more. Seems that’s what Gaijin wants to do, anyway.
the way to fix this is not by giving up on the issue as you seem far to ready to do
its not necessarily that they want compression its that they dont have enough of a reason to compromise queue times to fix it, so we just have to give them a big enough reason
Yeah, it suffers from the compression at the BR + the undertiered SU-30 premium spam.
12.3 is still playable as it doesnt get as many up tiers.
But 12.7, 13.0 are horrible atm.
Its okay though, selling one more premium back at 80 bucks and people buying it will surely fix things :)
It looks like a goofy side grade to the 12.3 F-16A at a higher BR since it’s without radar missiles against it’s competitors.
I’d take it going up to 13.0-13.3 if it gets AIM-7M or AIM-120A’s. I’ve been wanting it, but it seems to be in a very weird place that almost makes it a strike fighter.
the problem is that it can do great vs SARH aircraft and clubs third gens but 13.3 is stacked with premium 4th gens with fox 3s creating a toxic matchmaker
No. As it stands, whether the Mirage CS5 should have gone to 12.3 is a debate to be had given the Mirage 2D-R1, Tornado GR4 or SLE. Tornados especially but maybe also the D-R1 have probably needed to be lower for a while now, especially in the past few months with the great compression (like moving aircraft such as the F-15s or F-16s with IRCCM down to 12.7)
Even one of the stronger of the “weak” aircraft at 12.3, the Harrier GR7 is barely holding on at the moment, and its far far weaker than the F-16s with IRCCM.
Moving the F-16 SQV down, would require moving all the IRCCM F-16s down, which in turn would require moving dozens of other aircraft down and we are just back to square one.
There are 3 planes on this list that realistically stand a chance against the 16A OCU, being the MiG-21 Bison, F-18A and Mirage 2000C (which should argueably be 12.7 anyway)
The issue is, as many people here are saying, BR compression.
So what if a 12.7 struggles against 13.3/13.7, what do you think the 12.3s experience fighting 13.0/13.3? or 9.3s fighting 10.3s etc etc.
This isn’t a problem unique to the higher tiers of war thunder
You don’t balance a plane with what’s above it, you balance it with what’s at the same br or below
Otherwise you end up with the disastrous balance we have now
Compression makes it messy. The F-16s, especially those with IRCCM, and especially the one with the better dogfighting missiles, are the kings of the WVR, only really beaten the by the F2A ADTW and maybe the Gripen A at 13.0. The issue is that the meta around that BR weights more towards BVR not WVR, which puts them at a disadvantage until you can leverage the advantage which requires good game knowledge and experience to get into position properly. But if you can, then you hold the advantage, even against those 13.0/13.3 aircraft.
But now answer this question.
What about the 12.7 F-16s makes them not OP vs say, 90% of the aircraft at 12.3, including the F-16s with 9Ls? Even the aircraft with SARH at 11.7-12.0 will struggle vs an F-16, especially one with missiles not easily flared.
Even sticking purely to 12.7, the F-16s at that BR are stronger than some, like the Mig-29s, once you get passed the R-27ERs, or even the SARH F-16s like the F-16AJ, again, once you get passed the Aim-7s. Most of the premium F-18 players are usually free kills too
