Why is the Derby/R-darter so easy to evade?

I have played with every missile. Altrough the Derby has above average agility, only being worse than the R-77 variants and mica, and being similar or slightly better than the PL-12. Its the only missile that I’ve noticed some major tracking issues.

Take a look at this video, the R-Darter should have no issue in hitting that F-16. He was kinda slow, didn’t notch, not multipathing, and the missile just failed to hit because of his simple maneuvering while heading into the missile

I have a similar thread where a Derby overled a target and failed to turn enough to connect in the end:
Derby/R-Darter Over Leading Problem - Game Discussion / Realistic Battle - War Thunder — official forum

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No. It’s the worst outside of the aim 120s in terms of turning. much worse than r77 or pl12

the darta is actually better for short range then the R77, they have more delta v while less burn time. so they have there energy way quicker. though the r77 are still better at far of-bore shots

Off the rail is quite good (the first shot in the clip was extreme off bore and I got the kill), but it seems to have a lot of trouble turning after picking up speed…

Or just has trouble actually tracking those targets when they manouver hard for some reason, an aim7f would have no issue hitting that F-16 where my R-darter just napped.

Exactly, for short range, derby/R-darters are the 2nd fastest accelerating among modern fox3, after the mica. But for medium+ it will be around the same effectiveness as an R77, which is mediocre. Derby is like a discount mica without TVC and an average seeker

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Target is at Mach1.2 at missile launch = “slow” (facepalm)

really? any modern jet aircraft is considered “slow” when under 550km/h,… he’s more than 2 times “slow”,…

the reality in this maneuver → he sent your derby on a left (right for missile) interception path, then proceeds to a hard turn right (so at left of the missile) to avoid it.

simple & effective → your ennemy “played” with the missile guidance and pathing systems.

the same way that USAF Major E.T. Tullia did over Bagdad against 6 SAM launch (4xSA-2 then 2xSA-6)
[true and documented story] (with a way slower aircraft than your target)

Was he really turning hard? looked like he was taking a casual stroll

EDIT:
he got to 7G just under mach 1 in the last turn (i video checked - which seems weird because the ACC value stops with replay pauses,… so it might be the Camera Acceleration → target might have pushed more than 7G)

but considering the speed, 7G is far than enough.

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40G missile pulling only 25g-30g, classic gaijin moment

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The derby can’t pull much more than 25G with the motor ignited. After the motor runs out it barelly does 20G.

Most fox3s are more or less like that, the main difference in agility is the AoA and turns they can achieve right off the rail at slow speed.

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He was doing below average speeds at mach 1, not 1.2. Going at transonic speeds is kinda slow for top tier standards I think. And simple maneuvers while heading straight into the missile.

If you tried that against an aim7f the missile would slap you in the nose no problem, not to mention an aim120. The derby is the only fox3 missile with noticeable tracking problems

At 10 km and closer they are really good

Apparently not since that was a 8km shoot. I even pulled my aircraft up so the missile would drop down to make him point the nose up to shoot me too and hopefully not multipath in time (which was exactly what happened), while I kept my vertical turning into a notch position

@Gunjob should I make a bug report?

Looking at that clip I think they’ve made a change to MP this last major, because ive noticed the same with AMRAAM, fired high and fast against low targets that should be dead to rights, but the missile seems to just miss the target likes it going for an off-set target rather than going straight for the target, which shouldnt be happening.

Multipath seems to be the same as before in my experience, under 60m. The F-16 in the clip was at 118m the moment the missile passed alongside him. 118m would not save you even with the old multipath height

Perhaps not MP then, but certainly something is up with missile that are descending on targets that are close-ish to the ground. Its wierd

At the second 28 the derby just loses track somehow and gradually stops turning

I know what you mean, that even happens with aim9ms, but this is a different reason

Aim-9Miss is just a whooooole different issue.

But I might start getting some clips of C5s being wierd in the same situation and i’ll report back if I find anything interesting. Might be a wider issue

Spoiler

Real footage value
https://youtu.be/qUjX1RntqVw?t=183
Explannation video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8InuaTRKnY&pp=ugMGCgJmchABugUEEgJmcsoFD2YtMTYgc2FtIGJhZ2RhZNgHAQ%3D%3D

“simple maneuvers”
the Aircraft Maintenance Officer noticed the flare/chaff was unoperationnal after the return of that mission

So, Simple maneuver can save your live,… i don’t see any reason to doubt that.

AIM-120A/B/C or AIM-7 can also be defeated singlehandedly by maneuvering (it happenned to me).
R-73/R-77/R-27ER too
MICA-EM is the hardest one,…

i’m not saying it’s an “All the Time” thing,… but it can happen,…

And still many things can explain that:

  • Regulation rules/functions of the guidance chipset (AIM-7 vs Derby)
  • Physic between missiles are different (AIM-7F have more surfaces overall, but weight is similar with Derby) as well as the configurations of such surfaces.

at the end only
it was over 1350km/h when the missile was launched