Gajin isnt targeting the tech tree or the player base that’s not really even a bad time on gajins part it followed suit with the Russian mbt’s autoloader buffs and general reload buffs for all top tier mbts, I mean there is bugs that have been accepted for things like the merkava for years now that got accepted but have never been fixed putting it into a state where you can’t bug report it because it already exist yet is never getting fixed. Better yet you could be japan in which gajin straight up said a document and statement from the jsdf about the type 90’s armor was wrong because they believe the JSDF doesn’t know how to do an armor test. China in my eyes is treated on the better end for minor countries by far probably second best after sweden.
Jesus christ you got a link or screenshot to that? I really wanna see it with my own eyes. I thought the “clearly this is a marketing lie” BS was horrible enough but a video games company saying that the japanese army doesn’t know how to test their own armor takes the new spot of Gaijin BS quotes
If I take the Leopard 2A4 into 12.7 , it is fully capable of destroying enemies in any scenario—but what does that actually prove? Does it mean the Leopard 2A4 could be raised to 12.7?
You really like strawman arguments don’t you? The point I’m making is the PL-12 competes perfectly fine against other top tier fox-3’s and doesn’t loose out especially on the airframes like the j11b at 13.7.
I understand your point: you believe the PL-12’s current performance remains strong enough and that its flaws don’t warrant such intense player concern. To me, your argument that the PL-12 can hold its own against other Fox-3s is akin to arguing that the Leopard 2A4 is fully capable of competing on equal footing with top-tier MBTs. I keep using ground-combat analogies because I feel you fail to grasp that the PL-12’s nerf is a major issue; I’m trying to speak a language that resonates with you.
You think the PL-12 performs well on the J-11B—and it does—but that’s because the J-11B is one of the few aircraft in the Chinese air tree that allows the PL-12 to play to its strengths while mitigating its weaknesses. It enables players to largely bypass the missile’s maneuverability (which is only conditionally slightly better than the AIM-120D’s) and instead leverage its long-range engagement capabilities (which are merely superior to the R-77 and MICA).
However, it is the J-11B that is powerful, not the PL-12; the J-11B’s performance allows it to achieve good results even when firing the R-77—so does that make the R-77 an excellent missile? Beyond the J-11B, the PL-12’s nerf has a massive impact on aircraft like the J-10 and JF-17, which rely on close-range combat.
The point I’m making is: the PL-12’s performance is wholly inadequate for competing with other active-radar missiles. It ranks alongside the R-77 as one of the worst in its class; yet, unlike the R-77, which boasts exceptional maneuverability, the PL-12 offers no standout features—even its long-range capability is adequate.
Whole gimmic of the PL-12 was the off-boresight capability. I remember pulling off 80° off boresight shots within 5 miles which only R-77 and Mica could do better than it. Now it plays similar to AIM-120C/D but still lacks the maximum range to turn the missile into a proper BvR tool. Not the mention airframes that use the missile not excel at BvR anyways. I don’t see any point crewing J-15T or J-10C at all because something like Typhoon or Eagle does the same thing, but better.
J-10c is still somewhat serviceable but J-15 is just awful
Debatable.
Maybe the PL-12 isnt a standout missile it wasnt one before either its just mid, although maybe I’m wrong but doesn’t it have a lower seeker activation range which reduces the time the target has of knowing that the missile is seeking them actively?
I won’t argue against your point until the PL-12 gets changed, but as it stands now, I can only see it as a decent entry-level Fox-3. Compared to the 120A/B, AAM-4, and Derby (after-buff), each has its own strengths and weaknesses.
I do not agree, I did not have an enjoyable experience using PL-12s in the J-11b, I would say the changes have impacted that plane quite a lot as well. Or if that’s not the case, it may have impacted my playstyle a lot instead.
Its actually worse than the C and D
From experience atleast the C when i get a good shot enemy jets aren’t going to out pull my aim 120 and even if he tried the missile pulls well enough to get in proximity range
PL 12 though will miss entirely because its incapable of pulling more than 20g
explain R-77 and MICA then
PL-12 has similar issues to the Derby/R-darter, low G overload and a bugged autopilot.
It’s not just out-rolling the missile, it’s the fact that the autopilot is bugged and doesn’t make a good interception course to the target
Target POV 1
Target POV 2
My POV
Similar issue to the derby/r-darter that date more than a year:
1- Why is the Derby/R-darter so easy to evade? - Machinery of War Discussion / Aircraft - War Thunder — official forum
2- Derby/R-Darter Over Leading Problem - Game Discussion / Realistic Battle - War Thunder — official forum
So definitely not 38 G ?
Modern air to air combat occurs at around 10-15 km
Now I dont see any war thunder dogfights usually occurring that high.
So the missile never will be able to pull 38Gs at lower altitudes, and yes most missiles are overperforming
Yamahagi said that PL-12’s maximum load would be 18Gs… thats far lower than 38Gs
It is supposed to achieve 38g at an altitude of 6,000 meters and Mach 4.
However, in the game, because the distance from CM to stabilizers is too short, severe compression occurs at high speeds. Under the corresponding dynamic pressure in the current game, it can actually only pull about 18g—note that this is purely aerodynamic load factor; during the powered segment, rocket thrust can provide a tiny bit of additional load factor, but it is still far from reaching 38g.
what yamahagi just said, and he said “current overload” as in currently ingame.
And at alt´s of 10km´s+ most missile would lose pull as the air is too thin for the fins to effectively work, literally the reason why missiles are faster at altitude since there is less Air resistance.
Spoiler
also most missiles are underperforming in certain aspects
Its my main complaint,ok wanna nerf the close range pull do it,but the missiles leads too much or not enought,when the target changes pos it just drifts and fails to reach it even on NEZ engagement…i wasnt paying too much attention to it due to only playing sim and not seeing the missile but in the nuke thunder event i was following a couple shots and it just drifts away from the target,it became a literal brick with barely any aerodynamics