Has been a common claim all throughout this thread. The reality is that this cannon really isn’t all that.
The entire lower part is the transmission.
Chi-Nu’s cannon is almost identical to american 75mm instead.
It’ll claim a Panther can pen it on flat ground out to much further than you really can. In reality it’s sub 300m as you say.
It literally doesn’t, you’re just putting the camera far above the upper glacis without realizing it because of perspective.
At any range longer than 100 meters, any shot on another tank in level ground will come basically horizontally. Tank height is meaningless in comparison to the distance of the shot, and bullet drop in meaningless in any distance found in WarThunder (at least with any round that penetrates armor through kinetic energy).
That means it impacts the upper glacis at basically 48 degrees, its construction angle.
If you check protection analysis at 48 degrees, that’s exactly the data protection analysis will tell you, 50/50 at 200-250 meters.
This discussion has very much amused me. The Panzer IV 7.5cm is basically a Firefly Lite. Less pen, but similar gun handling, mobility, comparable armor(on the H model), great velocity, far better gun depression, lower silhouette, and the added benefit of good APHE. All at a full BR lower than the Firefly.
It reeks of “Germany suffers” in this post, with the best counter-arguments being that of “you’re just trolling/adding you to the block list/you’re just wrong”/disingenuous protection map usage. Germany 3.7 is quite strong, all the way to 6.7, with all the tanks in between having decent armor and guns, as well as passing grade mobility at the very least. Their tank destroyers are some of the most fun and strong vehicles for their respective BR’s as well.
You can look at my stats. Whilst I haven’t played a lot of games in my German tanks(because the teams are horrid making the general experience unenjoyable), a good amount sit at a respectable 2.0 KD, with many like the TD’s, Tiger I’s, & KT Sla.16 being higher.
Thst fact that anyone can claim that any of the big three nations is too weak and be taken seriously is wild.
The Tiger I’s alone are some of the best tanks in the game. If you’re in a downtier, it’s a good heavy tank. If you’re in an uptier, it’s an excellent medium. Germany 5.7 is one of my go-to SL farming lineups, along with Britain 4.7 thanks to the abundance of great premium spam at their respective BR’s, and vehicle capabilities.
It is insane to me as to how anyone can have any difficulties playing a lot of the low tier German vehicles, much less suggest that they need to further go down in BR when they stack very well against their competition.
5.7 techtree Tiger is pure pain imo.6.0 is very solid. Pay2win Tigers are great, but also p2w.
well at least at some range (i suggest 5.0-10.0) it sure lacks CAS. Yes they do have TU-2s at 5.7 but its in no comparisson with US range of machinery. And their jet CAS is also underperforming there - the Su-9 with two bombs and MiG-15 with two bombs, both going same time. Like, after Yak-9T/K and before SU-25, they sure lack of that stuff. IL-10s are also something something bad attack aircrafts,compared to any AD plane there.
i misspelled that - i wanted to say that the finnish Panzer performs much better than German ones. Sorry for the inconvenience
I agree that its noticeable, however its not that its SO better to have 1.0 difference with panzer IV F2/G. If anything, SHerman Firefly has 17pdr at 4.7. The cannon that performs perfectly at 5.3-ish.
it may not be the most damaging, but it sure is most balanced cannon on most medium tank there.
Sure, the USSR 76 has better damage, but it lacks penetration widely, and can not even pen sherman without shooting weakspots frontally. Surely, the 17PDR on the Achilles has more pen, but it does less damage (tho i consider 17pdr damage “good enough”) and the base it is on is questionable at very least. ANd the panzer IV?
Its medium mobile - it outruns some enemies and does not ourtun others. It has some problems with penetration - but most of the time its point - and - oneshot. It has no armor, but it cant be guaranteedly oneshotted with 50mm HE hitting turret or 75mm HEAT hitting tracks. And so on.
And the most questionable part is that ANY of the “competitors” of that cannon, excluding the early t-34 which stands even less chances and early sherman with hull weak enough to get bonked with SPAAs of the rank - are all 4.0+
while the tanks with “close” gun capabilities and close gameplay disabilities are 4.3+
i wanted to ask, why is that?
I mean, the p2w tigers have add-on armor on the UFP, but thats it. Tech tree tiger also plays wery smooth.
I wouldn’t call the same exact vehicle as the TT variant to be p2w, honestly. Sure, you get more of them, but it just means you either play more of the same exact vehicle with the same exact pros and cons that everyone and their mother knows how to counter, or if you do terribly in the first two, it isn’t like you’ll be able to spawn a third one. If you do well, you’ll likely own spawn in two anyway.
No, the wood, sparce addon tracks, and camo net do not add any meaningful enhancements to gameplay. Vehicles that can’t pen you still won’t, and vehicles that can still will.
The fact of that you believe the 5.7 lineup is bad with several Tiger I’s, two Panthers(which are basically vastly superior M10’s for their BR), and the Pz.IV/70… It may just be their playstyle is not for you. The uptiers aren’t great, of course, but almost no BR is free of this, and there are means around that(playing Tiger I’s like big mediums and non-electric Panthers like turreted TD’s).
CAS is a bit meh, but anti-CAS is very strong with countless 109’s at your disposal. Not much you can do about that since the German aircraft wasn’t nearly as multirole-oriented as the US was during the war. Britain isn’t much different in this regard as they get endless hordes of Spitfires, and a few heavy bombers.
It’s exact opposite of “smooth” thanks to S-mine launchers. You want to angle? Oh sorry, S-mine is in the way, just wait till barrel goes up then down again which takes ages. Also means no gun depression in exact spots where your barrel actually should be.
So your horrible turret traverse now is even worse, you can’t angle properly and if god forbid you have to adjust the angle from more front to more side - gun has to go all the way around S-mine launcher, which is glacially slow process.
I guess you never play techtree Tiger then.
Pay2win Tigers have extremely important add-on armor (makes all the difference vs Breda 90mm, 76, Japanese 75 and Soviet 85mm- enemy has to aim around it to penetrate your angled front, without the armor you don’t have a “safe angle” vs 75, 85mm and most likely Breda too at all) and most importantly - have no S-mine launchers which are the most frustrating “feature” ever introduced.
These 2 factors make pay2win Tigers vastly superior to the techtree variant.
ah that xD
Well it does occure some times, tho these launchers dont take your entire depression angles. And as someone who grinded USSR with T-44-122 and IS-2 Revenge, im familiar with fighting with bad depression angles xD
I recall dying several times because of them, tho i dont think i can say that thay “break” the gameplay on tiger as much as same thing breaks the new 60mm pewpew of israel.
TT Tiger still reflects around a 2.0 KD. Granted, I’ve played it less, but it’s not spaded, and I’ve learned to move my mouse up and around the S-mine launchers before they hit that point. They do ruin the angle slightly, but if I’m not in a downtier, I’m grabbing a bigger gun first and then using the Tiger I later in the match when most of the more powerful higher tier vehicles have already been dispatched(meaning I make better use of my armor which will account for the worse angling I can commit to).
Edit: They should definitely remove the S-mine launchers from the tank, however. It is stupid that you have to work around that when the other Tiger I’s don’t require you to.
I would be happier with consistently horrible depression, because you don’t have to wait several seconds for the “up, to the side, down” maneuver. Lack of gun depression can be played around easier than inconsistency.
It’s like Zerstorer 45, biggest dogpoop ever - yeah, you have nice gun depression, unless you try to shoot somebody to your side, then GL HF.
Still you’d do way better with pay2win variant.
Way more bounces vs hull, and early Tiger turret is still kinda “problematic”.
Vs normal Tiger - If I can, I shoot the hull with 85mm, biggest target and usually 1-shot.
Vs pay2win I have way more difficult choice.
There are some situations you may meet this, tho if you want your Tiger angled good you need your gun to be on top of that grenade launcher, meaning you won`t wait for the “side-down”. And also this occures in not so many situations. As i already said, i recall dying several times because of that. But most of the time your cannon is still higher than this launcher.
Especially on city maps its noticeable.
I also do that, but i believe its because the difference in the time i played them.
because no reason in getting in lineup H1 when you have p2w variants
I guess I just like taking the safer, less volumetric options when fighting the Tiger. I go for barrel/tracks/cupola unless I know for a fact my gun can overmatch the frontal hull regardless of angles(17pdr/90mm my beloved).
Either that, or mom was right and I need to stop playing with my food.
I absolutely hate Gaijin for this. Remember times when premium Typhoon 1b was WORSE than the techtree version and same thing was happening to Fw 190 D13 vs D9, where D9 was better and at a lower BR, lol.
It was fine, because premiums had better rewards. But I wanted techtree planes for results and fun.
2025 and it’s all inversed, with techtree variant having 0 advantages over premium. It’s simply a noticeably worse tank.
Similar story to PakPuma, except.PakPuma is way worse because there’s simply 0 alternative for it in the 4.7 (below that Poomer is OK) to 6.3 range (above there’s M41).
Funnily enough, I don’t play the TT Tiger simply because I can’t be bothered to grind out the mobility and gun upgrades. But especially the mobility upgrades. Why would I grind a slower tank when I have two more nearly identical platforms fully spaded at my disposal?