Imagine being so bad, that you think germany 5.3-7.0 is bad. jesus christ.
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only reason i cant stand this br range is the teams there so bad
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I mean idk i dont understand in what circumstances germany suffers to keep up :/
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Nice, now arguments, please.
How do you “counter” Su-100P racecar that can lolpen you from across the map and can drive circles around any German tank at 6.3 or below (at 6.7 it can be countered by M41 or Jpz 4-5 with some luck, problem is, Su-100P is supported by other fast vehicles, and you are on your own).
Chi-nu is rank 3, the explosive filler difference is brutal (104 g vs 29 g) . The penetration and speed shell is higher too.
So no, they dont have the same fire power.
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Also Japanese shells perform noticeably better vs angles.
Look up the protection analysis vs plates at 45 and 60 degrees - Japanese 75mm will face lower effective thickness than Panzergranate 39 and in some cases it’s very close to 85mm APBC!
This makes a huge difference vs targets like M4 and M4A2s glacis, add some slight additional angling and Pz IV can’t scratch them, Japanese shell will keep going through.
But it also makes a difference vs f.e. KV-1 UFP, vs Soviet turrets - the area you can pen is a bit bigger. You have a bigger margin of error vs angled surfaces in general.
I mean, anyone who has used Soviet 76 and 85 knows how huge of a difference angled performance makes.
People repeat angled performance is bad because they are gullible as hell and “Spookston said so”.
Its noticable, but its not the factor to balance a tank an entire 1,0 br different. If anything, the USSR`s 57mm cannon has less explosives and same pen as PzIV’s 75mm, sits much higher at 4,7.
penetration has not so much viable difference. What can Chi-Nu2 pen that Panzer IV G or F2 cant?
IF they both meet exactly same opponents which dont stand a chance neither agains Panzer nor against Chi-Nu, and in some cases neither can pen. The difference is that minor.
But CHi-Nu CAN meet some angry guys like Jumbo or Panther. Panzer cant.
They do. Differences are either minor or not to be considered at balance at all. Plus it balances out at aim speeds, reload speeds ect. yes, differences there are also minor, but so they balance minor firepower differencess.
Again one is rank 3 and the other is rank 2. And the gun performance is much better so thats why japanese tank is higher. Can the Chi-nu go to 4.0 ?? yes but saying is equal to Panzer 4G is a falacy.
T-34 is better in armor, movility, turret rotation speed and reload is simple a better tank.
Is not only the penetration. Chi-nu is better in other parameters too.
No. They dont.
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Thats not an issue with tanks is it? Its an issue with dev`s game balance. Panzer 4G always was rank 3, as were H and J which all are now rank 2 with lower BR.
Back in my days we fought IS-2s with Panzer 4s and won. We met Jumbos and won. And now they are rank 2 because some stupid gaijin logic.
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh i disagree. Its noticable but considering worse mobility if compared with 4F2, or worse armor and turret rotation and reload if compared with 4G - its a joke to make CHi-Nu2 an entire 1.0 br higher
NO!
It does not!
It performs quite well at that rank and should not be considered lower at any case!
But the Panzers which perfor much samely are lower, therefore must be put higher up!
yes, overall its a better machine, but fire control and post pen damage are a joke, still it sits much higher. So considering that panzer 4 has closely same pen, same or better mobility or better armor, seing it lower than CHi-Nu is a joke.
Is it really?
It`s less mobile than 4F2, and less armored than 4G. It has slower reload, has no advantage neither on aim speed nor on stablization. Lacks APCR shots tho they are not needed on this crazy cannons. So, what are it’s other pluses?
p.s. it would be great if you thing about any machine Panzer 4 F2 or G cant pen which Chi-Nu2 can. I myself got caught in same question while making a comparison with 75mm M1 and 85mm C-53
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The same stupid logic in put USA M24 in rank 2 when Italian one is rank 3.
Bigger maps, similar movility in both teams, no spam of hellcats or postwar tanks. Back in 2015 /16 this was much balanced than now.
Thats why we need some changes Panzer 4H go to 4.0 rank 3 with a late G like Italian one too.
And still thinking the Chi-Nu/To can go to 4.0 and 4.3 aswell.
Is very good tank just suffer in uptiers because gaijin for some reason want keep the game destroyed with the stupid ±1 BR spread.
Rank and fire power. Italian Panzer G is 3.7 instead of 3.3 because is rank 3 and L/48 gun.
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I love how you guys basically ignore one of the most important aspects of the Japanese tank (superior angled performance).
This is exactly the reason why this forum is such a clusterCAS.
People just ignore important technical aspects and go by the most basic metric (penetration) and “feel”, I’m pretty sure most of this forum barely ever uses protection analysis and don’t even notice that vs the same plate 2 different guns face noticeably different effective thicknesses.
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fr fr
maybe you`re right here.
i dont think that they should get lower, as its already a mess to play heavy tanks. Good cannons must be balanced, not a ultimate weapon they are on panzer 4s now.
rank is not considered as its a part of the problem of panzers being so low on BR when in reality they are competitive even at 4.3-4.7
And firepower is a bit better, yes, but not to be considered the reason it must be much higher. Especially when instead of a bit better firepower panzer shows better mobility or armor.
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Thats why i asked what chi-nu2 can pen what panzer 4g (or f2) cant. Because in my experiennce that angled performance is not much noticeable
why bother when can play?
Especialy when protection analysis lies in a lot of cases, ESPECIALLY on angles!
Yes, uncapped sharp nose AP rounds get a “boost” to their slope multipliers at 45 to 65 degrees, where they suddenly start to achieve lower angle multipliers than what is expected.
But they also ricochet far more than an APC or blunt APBC round at these angles (this is completely contradictory but this is also Gaijin land which is contradictory by default).
For example, by penetration alone the M103’s M358 APBC round (despite APBC designation, it is a sharp uncapped round) goes through a T-54 UFP 100% of the time.
In reality around a third of hits will ricochet because ricochet is a mechanic that acts separately from penetration, basically RNG that’s added on top.
Spookston is wrong but it’s also not like uncapped AP is just better against angled armor.
It should be noted that because of the 0.9× pen multiplier that ALL uncapped AP rounds get, even with the boost at 45 to 65° they can still just have worse angle pen when compared to an APC or APCBC of the same cannon. Noticeable with the T30 heavy tank.
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I have listed a few cases already.
But once I get back home, I’ll post some screenshots illustrating my point better.
And PA only lies when it comes to HE vs aircraft, 30 and 37mm dogshit performance is IMO a part of “Win Rate adjusting” package, which also makes you non-pen in 1 match, or bounce 200mm pen shell from the ground and fail to pen 20mm veritcal armor, and then you bounce a 150 pen shell at 1300m off the ground (so at this point it has like what, 115?) and kill Su-85M by penetrating his floor (I apologised to the guy afterwards)
that would be wonderful, thank you
But it’s not like anything is preventing you from recreating M4A2 on slightly sloped terrain and with a tiny bit of angle at few hundred meters, which is basically impossible to pen with Pzgr 39, unless you hit the area directly deside the mantlet, while Chi Nu can still penetrate the hull.
Basically any situation where armor goes beyond circa 125mm due to angle over 45 degrees (below that the difference is not worth discussing) will be a situation where Pzgr no longer penetrates at distance while Japanese 75mm is still going strong (found some I uploaded to this forum!).🧐
so basically its a random situations on distance within player`s choise to wait a little second and shoot better?
I mean angled more than at 45 is easilly a sideshot for both panzer 4 and chi-nu2.
ah thats a great one)
I mean i get it now but i won`t risk shooting with that angle like that with chi-nu either. Id rather shoot here
