OK, another guy who 1-shots Jumbo in the MG port from 500m away with a Puma while Jumbo is moving because you can predict everything.
Another guy who will aim for said MG port just as long as he’ll aim at the broadside of a barn because he can perform precise movements full speed.
Another guy who never incorrectly guesses the angle and can always tell 60 from 62.
In this example, I’d probably shoot the turret, but thing is, with Ch-Nu you can just shoot the hull at not-so-perfect angle, and Pz IV has to go for the turret, which is a smaller target with some risky edges too.
And turret shots with Pzgr 39 are notorious for failing to kill in 1 shot.
Also, this screenshot was made to show the big difference in angled penetration and did not illustrate a specific shot I’d have taken.
I mean i agree, but ingame? Its still a 50/50 situation when any reasonablle player will shoot differently anyway, becuse you dont realy know the angle, Exactly 2 degrees more and this spot becomes also “yellow” for chi-nu. So difference within 2 to 3 degrees in game is practically a random shot.
There’s a ton of situations where you have absolutely minimum time to fire, f.e. enemy is passing between 2 wrecks, you can’t exactly tell how much armor you are facing, thanks to bushes, you may have trouble identifying the tank, or you just stopped and have to fire while the gun is moving up after taking the big dip.
There’s a ton of situations where even skilled players will make a not-so-precise shots. I know everyone) in this forum but me is a superhuman (I meet superhumans firing accurately through cover, smoke and dense foliage, of course they are superhumans and not just common and popular cheaters, lol) but lets just act for a second your accuracy is not perfect and you can’t get the gun on pixel-sized target in miliseconds.
In such conditions having better angled penetration is a huge asset.
Just a comparison, in all 3 cases I’ve given the cannon 4mm of pen over the armor thickness and this time I used higher pen Japanese shell.
But I just wanted to show how much bigger of an angle is needed to stop Japanese vs German shell. Of course if somebody is using the lower pen Japanese shell, the available “penetration margin” is smaller, yet still noticeable. Basically vs Pzgr 39 very little angling (from the direction and from the terrain elevation f.e.) is needed for the hull to become no-go.
Unfortunately iot seems war thunder calculates “heading angle” based on how tank is rotated, so the only angle worth trusting is “angle of attack”, but still, for the Kou to nonpen Sherman has to angle enough for the side to start being an issue.
Vs Pzgr 39 you can angle without ANY help of terrain so the hull becomes basically a non-pen black hole:
I’m not saying there’s some insane amount of tanks that frontally become vulnerable.
But in every case of “part of side exposed”, “non-precise shot”, “enemy switching angles”, Japanese gun, even with the “lower pen gun” has better chance to go through, T-34 has to angle a lot more to make its front invulnerable, but then the flat area above tracks becomes vulnerable, so you can always 1-shot it.
With KwK you have to go for the turret.
But interestingly the better angled pen does not work that great (or at all, I might have messed up the angle) vs thick armor like on KV-1 Zis:
This is nothing special, but all my 10+ battles lately are done with either Italian M24 or Italian Sherman. And here I did not even die once while tanking about 8 shots.
The exact penetration doesn’t matter for the armor equivalent thickness.
What matters is the caliber, and type of bullet. Since both Japanese 75mm AP rounds are sharp, uncapped APHE, they have the same slope effects. Your screenshots show different effectiveness because of the slightly different angle.
That’s because uncapped AP rounds only get noticeably better slope effects at 45-65 degrees, which is below what you’re hitting.
Example: Equivalent effectiveness of 75mm plate hit by 75mm AP/APC over angle
As can be seen, below 45 degrees the two rounds achieve similar effectiveness, it’s only at 45 degrees where they diverge, and past 65 degrees APC becomes better.
I think people are (intentionally) missing your entire point. I’d hesitate to call Germany bad in that BR range, but their complete lack of mobility, and lack of truly good CAS prevents them from dominating despite them having solid heavy/heavier medium tanks.
The only nations weaker than Germany in the CAS department would be Israel, Sweden, and potentially Italy. Their CAP is also somewhat weak as well.
As for light tanks, they have 2. The M41 is decent, but it doesn’t do anything to help the 4.0-6.3 lineups, and the Puma loses effectiveness around 4.3/4.7 compared to other light tanks.
Yeah but past 66 (because at 65 AP is still a better performer) there’s very few tanks that can be penetrated and if they can it means their armor is super-thin anyway.
To get to the same 99mm relative protection I have to move the point of aim around 30cm right till the angle becomes 68 degrees effective.
Actually, I can’t see that drop past 66 degrees in game…
Germany has the best SPGs and best Heavy tanks for the majority of the WW2 BRs.
4.0 Germany is pretty average having good medium tank, two good SPGs, good light tank, good SPAA, but in exchange meh CAS.
5.0 Germany is insanely OP having VK 3002, Hetzer, good SPAA, and some pretty good CAS options, with the only downside being no light tank. The only lineup that really compares in terms of being OP is 4.3 Russia with Kv-7.
6.0 Germany is also average having good heavy tanks, good medium tanks, good SPG, good SPAA, and ok CAS, but no light tank.
We’re not missing the point he’s tryna make, it’s just that his point is invalid. If Germany received good light tanks and good CAS, then it would be far too powerful.
Idk if Loofah is being intentionally malicious trying to get buffs for his favorite nations and nerfs for his least favorite. I’m just gonna give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that his personal play style naturally favors light tanks, and that’s why he struggles with Germany. Not cause Germany is weak, but cause it just doesn’t cater to him.
Something that there is absolutely no question about, however, is that the arguments he’s making are fully in bad faith, and rely almost entirely on personal attacks and opinions.
Well, Italy’s CAS is tailor made to bully Germany, as there’s nothing better to kill Pz IV, Stugs and Pz IIIs than 6 MG151/20 with stealth belt and a TON of ammunition. 100kg bombs work very well vs Stugs, to the point I suspect Stug IIIF has some hole in armor.
But nowadays they have some CAS options up until about 5.0 - IL-10, P-47-D30. At 5.7 there’s Tu-2S, which is pretty good once it drops the bombs, it can actually outmaneuver some fighters just fine.
what Italy truely needs to shine is 160kg high-capacity bomb, carried by G.55, G.56, Re.2005, which is something we’ve been asking for years and Gaijin kept ignoring it for some absolutely unknown reason.
They are happy to give Soviets the absolutely busted Yak-9K and Yak-9UT and TIS-MA that can 1-shot Tigers no problemo (as the shell deals A LOT MORE damage than German 50mm APHE for whatever reason), but Italy can’t have their bombs.
Anyway, while Italian CAS is essentialy anti-German, German CAS past 2.7 is mostly sad.
Me-410 with 2x500kg is only solid if we completely forget about the existence of F6F and F4U, or if we are playing against Sweden and they insist on not spawning B-239.
I have said it already, i’ll say it again: making PAK Puma impossible to obtain for normal players is one of Gaijin’s finest jokes, on similar level as Plywood Bug 1.0 and 2.0 (I should stop calling it “bug” as everything points down to it being 100% deliberate).
